Woman attacked by transactivists at speakers corner - part deux

[BeyondNoone]

Here's the link to thread one
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/_chat/3033126-London-meeting-to-discuss-Gender-Identity-attacked-by-transactivists

I'm just going to sleep, if someone else can add the news links for me please? Thanks :)

it might make transactivists a bit more muted in their insults if they were worried about being perceived as Islamophobic

It would be interesting to see how some of the SJWs would process this if they felt they were having to avoid being perceived as phobic on two fronts which are in opposition to each other.

I wonder what would happen to the "movement" if trans suddenly became uncool and lost support among many young adherents. I could imagine a swift unraveling.

I wonder what would happen to the "movement" if trans suddenly became uncool and lost support among many young adherents. I could imagine a swift unraveling.

I wouldn't hold your breath. The ideology is deeply homophobic, which should be seen as massively uncool. But hasn't seemed to make a dent.

Don’t know if anyone shared this yet as I’m out, but...
mobile.twitter.com/sexgenderethics

I switch between thinking this is going to go on for a decade or more with a slowly growing awareness in the public consciousness of kids with ruined bodies, rapes by men in women's prison etc or whether there'll be a sudden fracture like with phone hacking or Hillsborough when things suddenly come to public attention and there's outrage.

nauticant

Me too. It's the knowledge that this is such a ludicrous issue and the stance should be obvious. Coupled with the fact that it is multilayered and sometimes tricky to get your head around.

Men, on the whole, I think will get it instantly. Because they know what men are like. And are socialised to protect what is 'their own'.

Women are socialised to be kind and inclusive.

It's a very odd dichotomy. The very people who require the protection, are often the ones more willing to give it up.

I think of all the allies who might be out there, men have the most potential. I very much agree with your Men, on the whole, I think will get it instantly. Recently I came out to a couple of friends over being gender critical and the man's response, a pretty conservative guy, was straight of a rad-fem playbook.

How to reach the mainstream of men? Probably through concerns over their wives/partners and daughters rather than through the force of clearly feminist arguments.

Following on from Speakers Corner, the next meeting has been arranged in Brighton.

"PRESS RELEASE FOR BRIGHTON. PLEASE DM US FOR TIME AND DATE OF DABATE NOW IF YOU NEED TO ARRANGE CHILDCARE ETC. (WE ARENT RELEASING IT TO THE PUBLIC JUST YET) AND PLEASE SPREAD THIS FAR AND WIDE TO JOURNOS ETC

Debate Not Hate: We Need To Talk About Gender
New GRA Discussion planned to coincide with Labour Party Conference and Momentum World Transformed in Brighton

A recent event discussing the proposed changes to the 2004 Gender Recognition Act became newsworthy after it was violently opposed by trans activists. The incident was reported in several major online and hard copy publications including The Times, The New Statesman, The Mail on Sunday, The Mirror and The Sun. Liberal broadsheets have yet to publish any articles or commentary on this assault to free speech.

The original event, titled ‘What is Gender? The GRA and Beyond’, was scheduled to take place at New Cross Learning, a community-run library in South-East London. It was set up by a small group of local women to address concerns around how the legislation affects the rights of women and girls. Specifically that the proposed changes would:

• enable anyone to self-ID their gender, and change their legal status and official documentation without medical checks and without necessarily “transitioning” in any other way

• lower the age of consent for legally changing gender from 18 to 16

• conflate the legal definitions of “sex” and “gender” and therefore render “sex” meaningless, creating serious implications for the rights of women and girls.

• remove or diminish exemptions in the Equality Act designed to protect single-sex spaces, services and genuine occupational requirements.

Dr Julia Long, a feminist academic, and Miranda Yardley, a gender critical transexual, were booked to speak in opposition to the proposed changes. Two representatives from LGBT charity Stonewall, Bex Stinson and a colleague, were confirmed to speak in favour, but both pulled out at at late notice citing “personal reasons”. Invitations were offered to around 20 other trans activists and public figures to defend the proposals, but all declined.

The organisers decided to go ahead with the event, but were forced to re-advertise it as a discussion rather than a debate. Trans activists then began calling publicly for the venue to refuse to host to the event, as well telephoning, emailing and visiting the library in person to demand they cancel. The venue eventually capitulated to this pressure the day before the event, due to “safety concerns”. A new central London venue was hastily found but it was decided not to release details publicly, in order to avoid further harassment by trans activists. Instead, organisers announced they would meet at Speaker’s Corner in Hyde Park before going on to the new venue.

A group of trans activists then protested at Speaker’s Corner, and three of them violently assaulted a 60-year woman who was there to attend the talk. After the attackers fled and police had been informed, the new venue address was secretly disseminated in an attempt to avoid further violence or harassment, but the trans activists followed women in small groups to the new venue and tried to force their way in. When they were prevented by staff, they continued to protest outside, chanting loudly until police were called and local residents complained. As a result, the venue were forced to cut the discussion short with no time for a Q&A as planned.

Footage of the attack at Speakers' Corner - which is now under investigation by police - soon circulated online. Rather than outright condemn the violence, many individual trans activists and even trans and LGBT organisations, refused to do so, with a significant number justifying it and even calling for more violence towards women, using the misogynist slur “TERF”. Trans activism has a long history of suppressing debate and no-platforming speakers who are gender-critical, but the violence at Speakers’ Corner and the subsequent online outpouring of violent and hateful rhetoric towards women marks a watershed moment.

In response, the women involved in this event have formed a campaign group called Mayday to urgently address the need for open debate about the rights of women and girls. They have received many messages of support and offers of help from women and men across the country, and around the world - particularly from the US, Canada and Ireland where the conflict between trans activism and free speech is already a serious issue.

In a refusal to be silenced by the anti-democratic tactics of trans activists, they have scheduled another event in Brighton to debate the GRA, which will take place to coincide with the Labour Party Conference. We will publicly announce the exact date and location of the debate on Saturday 23rd September. They wish to issue an open invitation to trans activists, LGBT organisations, politicians or anyone else who is willing to defend the proposed changes. Anyone interested in doing so should contact
[email protected] or contact @GraDiscussion.

Debate Not Hate: We Need To Talk About Gender.
Brighton
Date and Venue TBA"

Thanks Datun. I’m not far from Brighton so I’ll sign up and will hopefully be able to attend.

I’m glad that this seems like it is being staged alongside the Labour Party conference. Particularly after the pissweak response I had to the letter I wrote to Corbyn. I’ve posted it on the other thread, will try to link or copy it over.

Here: Gender ID bill - Gender Critical To Do List
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/2995738-Gender-ID-bill-Gender-Critical-To-Do-List#72051771www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/2995738-Gender-ID-bill-Gender-Critical-To-Do-List#72051771

Oh gawd! Sorry. It’s on the “Gender Critical to do list” thread anyway.

I got this from someone called George on behalf of Corbyn:

Many thanks for getting in touch about equality issues.
Labour is the party of equality. We believe that no-one should be left behind. To achieve that, the next Labour Government will build a Britain for the many, a more equal and tolerant society that treats people of all backgrounds with dignity and respect.
Under the Tories, progress is being rolled back for women, disabled people, LGBT people and BAME communities.
Policies introduced by the Conservatives have turned the clock back on gender equality. Our challenge now must be to build on Labour’s past achievements and push for full equality for women: financially, in the workplace, in families and homes, online and in public spaces. A Labour Government will gender audit all policy and legislation for its impact on women before implementation.
Labour will champion the rights of disabled people. We will reverse Tory changes to Personal Independence Payments and scrap the Tories’ unfair and counterproductive sanctions regime. We will ensure disabled people get the support they need by scrapping Work Capability Assessments and replacing them with fairer, more personal support.
The last Labour Government did more for LGBT equality than any other government in British history and the next Labour Government won’t stop fighting for LGBT equality. We will build on our history of championing LGBT rights, tackling homophobia wherever it occurs.
Labour will work every day for a fairer society, where every person is enabled to get on in life, regardless of race, faith or ethnicity. We will implement a comprehensive strategy for racial equality, one that effectively challenges the socio-economic disadvantage many Black, Asian and Minority Ethnic communities suffer.
With Labour, no-one and no community will be left behind. We will strengthen legislation around equal pay and tackle the barriers that stop women, BAME communities, LGBT and disabled people from reaching their full potential.
Only Labour will create a fairer, more equal society where whatever your background, wherever you are from, you have the means and opportunity to fulfil your potential.
Best wishes,
George
Membership Services and Correspondence
The Labour Party

God what a bag of wank. Why can nobody talk like a human any more? That's not a letter, it's a series of pronouncements pretending to be a letter. It's like robocalls. Maddening.

I'd rather get a printed leaflet with PISS OFF, SWEETHEART scrawled on the front.

Well, that's shit, isn't it, busy? Not even trying to answer the question.

How to reach the mainstream of men? Probably through concerns over their wives/partners and daughters rather than through the force of clearly feminist arguments.

Definitely. Some of the men I am openly 'out' to...simply did not get it until I brought up their daughters and (teen) boys at school. Then a dawning horror...and you could see the penny dropping and their stances changed immediately.

Gay men, tend to get it immediately. Except for one we know, who my husband actually made cry a few weeks back because my husband would not drop it despite many cries of 'transphobia'. That convo actually came about as this guy was going on about how it was simply amazing that there is a pregnant male person So not the sharpest knife in the box by any means.

With Labour, no-one and no community will be left behind

Except females, so it seems. They wish to put us backwards in terms of rights. Lovely.

I wonder if men will sit up and take notice when they are accused of transphobia if they refuse to have sex with a trans 'woman'. Many will take it as an affront to their masculinity if they are tricked into sex with a trans person.

Many will take it as an affront to their masculinity if they are tricked into sex with a trans person.

Will they try this shit on straight men though, surely they would anticipate the 'fuck right off' reply and know they wouldn't be able to guilt and shame and threaten them into possibly doing it the way they can with lesbians

They don't try on with straight men because they're not gay.

They only try it on with lesbians. Because they are straight men, in women's clothes.

The transwomen who are gay (I.e. attracted to men), don't tend to pull this shit.

Which raises another point. Are the transwomen who want to sleep with women and those who want to sleep with men equal in terms of driving the most harmful parts of the trans ideology?

Ahh, a x-post dealing with the question I asked.

HornyTortoise: "Will they try this shit on straight men though, surely they would anticipate the 'fuck right off' reply and know they wouldn't be able to guilt and shame and threaten them into possibly doing it the way they can with lesbians"

Am sure you're right about this. A lot of this is driven by hatred against women - it's always transwomen demanding their right to have sex with lesbians, not transmen demanding the right to have sex with gay men.

Which raises another point. Are the transwomen who want to sleep with women and those who want to sleep with men equal in terms of driving the most harmful parts of the trans ideology?

No. And that is where the polarisation of opinion occurs. Lots of people know transwomen who are gay and are perfectly harmless with no intention of violating women's boundaries. Or saying they are actually, biologically women.

The transwomen who say they are biologically women, have to say that, in order to coerce lesbians into sex. They can't identify as a woman, and then sleep with a woman as a man. That's why they don't go after straight women, either. It doesn't validate their female identity.

I'm sorry if it's being dense, but is there any official type organisation speaking up on this issue? That I could google/join/attend/raise awareness for?
I cannot believe the consequences for natal women in the long term
It's intolerable that what has been fought for is all going to be erased by this movement and women are going to end up as third class citizens
The TRA violence is frightening

It's complex, isn't it? By erecting the all-inclusive trans umbrella, this means that the AGP are in the "same" group as 5 year old girls wanting cars from the toyshop or the lovely, shy, effeminate, and confused 14 year old boy who wouldn't harm a fly.

Human shields or what?

An effective campaign would need to bring forward for criticism the harmful parts while making clear that the "softer" parts of the group are not the issue and deserve compassion and suitable treatment/support etc. (And that's reality-based support, ie not that a small boy wearing a dress has transformed into a girl.)

midshiresmum

That's part of the problem. There is no one, big cohesive organisation. Just lots of pockets of people desperately trying to make their voices heard.

My post at 10:15, above, gives you contact details re a meeting. If you don't want to go to the meeting, you can still ask to join the group.