Woman attacked by transactivists at speakers corner - part deux

[BeyondNoone]

Here's the link to thread one
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/_chat/3033126-London-meeting-to-discuss-Gender-Identity-attacked-by-transactivists

I'm just going to sleep, if someone else can add the news links for me please? Thanks :)

Have NCd in honour of this thread.

I would love it if they tried to say to the police/a court "but they were a terf so it was justified" and to just get a blank look.

We need to come up with an alternative meaning for TERF. Claim it back but with a positive slant. Been trying to think of one all day, the cogs are still whirring on that.

My brain is also melted from following this thread since last weds night. It's certainly been a very educational learning curve and I now feel familiar enough with most of the debate to start talking to others about it without fear of judgement.

PEWS? Penis excluding women's spaces.

That's all penises,so not just trans. So not transphobic.

Riffing on earlier ideas:

Save Our SeXX (SOS)
Sex Not Gender (SNoG)
Women Against Gender (WAG) / People Against Gender (PAG)

TERF

Truth Explaining Realistic Female
Teenagers educated on rational facts
Teaching Everyone about Real Females

Truth, Evidence, Reality, Facts

T - thoughtful
E - educating
R - responsible
F - female

Zoloh I like your definition

I like Zoloh's, but I think WitchBitch's version fits better in places where terf would be used IYSWIM?

Has everyone seen this?

It should go some way to exposing the insanity behind all this.

Posted by the same group responsible for last week's violence.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3039248-TRANS-HEALTH-MANIFESTO

Hilarious. Am sharing on Twitter.

T - trans-centric
E - egomania
R - results in
F - fallibility

T - trans-centricity
E - enables
R - righteous
F - Fallacy (phallusy) !

Just wanted to share this just seen on Twitter

I wonder whether they will get abuse for being transphobic, busymum. What responses had it had on twitter?

I thought you were all being unkind about that manifesto. However, having read it, it's fucking bonkers. I don't even know where to begin, but it's very me, me, me - greedy for resources, education (medical training ffs!) and medical procedures which there are whole other populations with serious medical needs for similar procedures that aren't being met. The resources of our NHS are finite and I have no problem with trained medics gate-keeping.

(wrong thread, although the manifesto is linked above)

busyboysmum

I also would like to know the response to that notice. Because this time is not women telling them what to do.

Sorry I'm still desperately catching up so just briefly another parallel - I had anorexia but mine wasn't caused by dysmorphia, it was caused by ASD (combination of restricted food choices, ritual and wanting to minimise my female curves because of previous negative attention). I was still treated as mentally ill and not indulged in my desire to control my food intake in this way. It doesn't actually matter what the cause is here since there's no medicine for it, it's the effect.

busyboysmum: I really feel that Jewish and Muslim groups could be our allies on this. It seems to me that if Christians express concerns about transactivism, then the usual mob start shouting "bigots" but if a Muslim group were to do so, the response would be more muted.

Because the batshit mob who shout "transphobia" at every turn are the same mob who bandy around the term "Islamophpobia" - logic not being their strong suit.

Hmm I'm not sure if signs like that help our cause to be honest, I'm not sure it's helpful to have our voice mingled in with people who have an objection to it for religious reasons.

The problem is no one really knows what our beef with the whole thing is, the amount of people I've seen on twitter who genuinely think we want trans people to die is ridiculous.

To be lumped in with people who just want to men to be men and women to be women just makes people think that's what our stance is too.

I see what you're saying, Sentimental . On the other hand, I wonder if it might make transactivists a bit more muted in their insults if they were worried about being perceived as Islamophobic. It's OK to describe a bunch of middle-aged white women as "fascists" who "want to commit genocide," apparently, but they might think twice about describing Muslims in those terms.

And I suppose the argument to be made against all the parallels to anorexia and body dysmorphia is that they just don't see it as an illness and find it deeply offensive when people refer to it as that, they just see it as them becoming who they really are and that society is trying to pathologies them.

My argument would be that anyone who is willing to go to the length of having such invasive surgery must be very distressed and they need help.
I'm also not sure if it's an illness as I don't think that the issue is necessarily with the person (though it sometimes is) but with the strict and oppressive patriarchal structures that make people believe that they can only behave certain ways and they'll be treat differently if they are the opposite sex.
However that structure ain't going anywhere soon so I do think the answer is intense therapy and in some cases surgery.

However I think that's true for a lot of mental illness (not all!!), people are expected to function in a deeply unfair and unhealthy society and when they become inevitably distressed it's called an illness, when it's a reaction to the environment.

I don't think they'd become muted in their tones I think they'd ignore that it was muslims saying it and just say that's what we said.
I also think it would turn on the we hate muslims brigade and might even give the transactivists an unlikely ally.