What causes women to become trans activists?

[TheChampagneGalop]

I mean the type of activists that appeared to disrupt the recent meeting about gender in London.

From what I've read about this incident in Speaker's corner there were more women than men protesting and harassing women trying to go to that meeting.
I watched the video and the male violence was of course disturbing and alarming (and criminal!), but the mindless mantra chants from the women about terfs also disturbed me.

"And transwomen do get murdered. Again, by cismen"

Do you have any figures?

I don't much like the talk of 'enemies.' As a society we have to all work together.

But if there is an 'enemy' it is violent men, that includes all violent men, regardless of whether they identify as cis, some kind of trans or just men.

Men who are trans identified are no more or less an 'enemy' than any other man.

ReanimatedSGB

If transwomen are being murdered because a punter finds a penis where he expected a vagina, why is the constant refrain that it is feminists who are contributing to the deaths of transwomen because we insist they are men.

The very act of pretending they are women is what is getting them killed.

My DS goes to university in a few weeks and we were looking at the student reps at his college.

The women's officer describes herself as representing 'non binary and anyone self identifying as female'.

Then is then some general talk about seminars on transphobia.

Datun No, the murderers, who have access to them, is what is killing them.

Not feminists, not dressing in any way whatsoever. Dressing in any particular way does not mean a person is encouraging murderers to kill them.

ponderingprobably

No, I realise that. It was in answer to ReanimatedSGB assertion that being men is what gets them killed, and transactivists assertion that not being called women gets them killed.

Just pointing out the contradiction.

I've never understood the thinking behind blaming feminists.

(Obviously, I realise they are killed because some men are violent bastards).

I'm agreeing that it is not feminists or gender critical discussion that is killing transwomen, but violent cismen.
Here's a reasonably reputablelink regarding the murder of transwomen by cismen.

Why is male on male violence women's problem to sort out? Why does this mean that women can't meet to discuss gender and the damage it does to women?

Isn't that the point of the thread - why is it with all if the violence directed at MTT, do mttt and their supporters chose to direct their anger at women?

Why is male on male violence women's problem to sort out? Why does this mean that women can't meet to discuss gender and the damage it does to women?

Well precisely. Social media is alive today justifying violence towards feminists because claiming men are men leads directly to their murder.

I'm merely pointing out the flaw in their own illogical argument. Using their logic.

I suppose feminists come into it when they object to trans encroachment upon safe women only spaces. However some trans men are also aggressive males. There has been aggression towards women from the trans community - with this very debate. So it is no surprise vulnerable women, who have been abused by men in the past, still feel threatened by them

Yes, trans people need to be allowed places of safety. Yet that should not encroach on safe places for vulnerable women.

Also female women should be allowed to own their own biological identity. If they identify as a woman in conjunction with their biological sex (not person or ciswoman) this should be allowed.

Sorry trans women not trans men - I think. I get confused.

Realistically, Gender critical feminist have very little political power. How many women on here have written to their MPs about their concerns about self identification - and the response (in a world where rapists are placed into women's prisons at their own request) is to make it easier for men to identify as women.

Those who criticise and attack women for being gender critical arent doing it to protect MTT rights, they are punishing women for not performing gender roles. Women are supposed to be everyone's mother, to look after others and put themselves last.

In real life amongst my acquaintances who are female trans activists: because they 've long believed prolific feminist speakers to be white centric and BAM exclusionary, So theres a "common enemy" aspect to them supporting trans activism (which is also white privilidge dominated but they seem to overlook that.....) CIS privilege is on a par with white privilege in their eyes

TinselTwins, yeah, I can see that happening, too. Mind you, there have previously been alliances between anti-porn feminists and religious rightwingers... While the biggest problem in the world is male violence, the biggest problem in progressive politics is self-righteous fuckwits.

sentiment what are the seminal texts please?
All this is new to me - lurking for a few days so trying to understand the points being raised but also believing that there must be a way to allow transgender live their lives. Without violence in any 'side'. Im finding some of the comments in the feminist chat etc to be quite anti-transgender, which I'm struggling to understand (honestly, I'm not being goady, but trying to understand different points of view). I'm wondering if the seminal texts you refer to would be helpful in providing some simple explanations?

Is MTT male transgender? So many acronyms. I don't like 'cis'- why not 'woman'? I don't see the point in a prefix. Who is asking for a prefix please?

Could you maybe say which particular bits you think are anti-transgender, woman, and we could try and explain a bit how people arrive at those views? If it's not something you've seen or read about before, I can see how some of it might seem at first glance to be off-putting or impenetrable, but it's all pretty easily explained. Perhaps the first thing to understand is that the view here is pro womans rights, rather than being anti-trans rights - the problem being that they are frequently in conflict.

tinsel Cis privilege? What's privileged about being 'cis'? Serious question. Not a statement.

WomanNoCis

Have you seen this?

Transwomen commit crime at exactly the same rate as men.

As there are so few of them, one might think this isn't a problem.

However, self identification means any person, including all the people in this video, can identify as trans. In fact do identify as trans.

Women simply aren't violent as a class. In anywhere near the numbers that men are. Hence sex segregation.

If transwomen were campaigning to be called women, but saying they didn't want to enter women's spaces, that would be a different matter. If they didn't want to say that talking about female biology was exclusionary. That would be different.

It's not what they want to call themselves, it's what they want to do with that label.

This was the result of women wanting to talk about the issue. (New footage).

m.youtube.com/watch?v=9_d3ozhSE-U

I'm sure you understand the implication of this video. But if there's anything else you're not sure about, just ask.

MTT is male to trans, ie biological male, XY chromosome.

A lot of women here share your view on "cis". Unfortunately the courtesy of being allowed to decide what you are named does not extend to women, who are told by transactivists that we are cis whether we like it or not. Transactivists and their allies use cis to distinguish biological XX females from trans women - however, at the same time, insisting that "trans women are women", which then leaves the word "woman" applying more readily to biological males who wish it, while biological females are referred to as cis women.

Reading with interest...

My "local" (ish - nothing much is local where I live) "feminist" FB group announced today that the terms "male" and "female" were no longer permitted in reference to people as they are "bioessentialist".

So yeah. Makes sense. NOT.

womanno

I perhaps once thought like you - that mumsnetters might have a point, but they were being very rude and pretty unwelcoming to an oppressed group. That was then.

Anyway, posted these links on the other thread. These are pretty accessible and should give an idea of what is being argued about.

Rebecca reilly Cooper
aeon.co/essays/the-idea-that-gender-is-a-spectrum-is-a-new-gender-prison
rebeccarc.com/2016/11/01/the-word-terf/

Miranda Yardley (Miranda is transwoman and an occasional mumsnetter)
mirandayardley.com/en/

This is very good too, by claire
storify.com/claireOT2/statement-against-conversion-therapy

Magdalen berns
www.youtube.com/channel/UCvTTakI97sQ4SkMnsH8r0qQ

In case anyone suggest terf is a neutral description
terfisaslur.com

From 2015 but when transactivists tried to stop Germaine Greer giving a talk
www.newstatesman.com/politics/feminism/2015/10/what-row-over-banning-germaine-greer-really-about

The excellent janice Turner on Maria miller's proposal to make it easier to self identify
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/2993425-Maria-Miller-interviewed-by-Janice-Turner-full-text

Sarah Ditum also writes loads of great stuff on this sarahditum.com/2017/07/24/some-thoughts-on-reforms-to-the-gender-recognition-act/
www.newstatesman.com/writers/sarah_ditum

As does glosswitch
www.newstatesman.com/writers/glosswitch

....and of course BetsyM00s sterling work collating all sorts of helpful stuff www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/2995738-Gender-ID-bill-Gender-Critical-To-Do-List

fixed that Sarah Ditum link sarahditum.com/2017/07/24/some-thoughts-on-reforms-to-the-gender-recognition-act/