Why are feminists so aggressive?

[BertrandRussell]

This, or something like it, it always being asked. People say that the FWR board on here is scary and hounds out people whose faces don't fit. That women are always being told they can't be feminists if.......And so on. And so on.

In my experiences, you are much more likely to get an aggressive response if you express a feminist point of view than the other way round. Is it just me? Or am I missing something?

There have been plenty of interesting feminists threads recently, where everyone seems to be holding their own- but the same old accusations keep coming up.

lass

You are a regular poster here. I mostly agree with you, sometimes I don't. But I'd be interested to know whether or not your opinion has changed, at all, since you have been posting and reading.

Not saying I am a feminist does not stop me being female.

But what does being female mean Lass?

Why did you start this bert? I'm not sure we are going to get anywhere beyond 1) I don't post because you are mean 2) I don't post because i feel stupid 3) I don't post because i shave/SAHM/watch porn and you guys hate that 4) I don't post because an unspecified poster on an unspecified thread, that may have been AIBU but I don't remember, called me a troll, a handmaiden or a man 5) I don't post because you act like all men are evil incarnate but that isn't equality and feminism is about equality 6) I don't post because you are restricting women's choices by saying they should act in certain ways

Think that's everything

Anyone got anything new to add or shall we just have a barney?

"Why did you start this bert?"

I don't know. I think because I really, really don't understand why some people hate feminists so much. Or why it's OK to say utterly awful things about/to feminists, but feminists are not allowed to question, or challenge anyone.

I do think I know the answer, but I don't want to be right.

I quite often agree with you ! Datun. I think I have learned to be a bit more critical of thinking about why things are taken to be "well that is just the way they are"

What do you think the answer Is?
I don't know either but it upsets me to think about it so I try not to. Especially criticism of this board. It seems either unfair, or makes my heart break so many women believe they aren't clever enough to say something relevant.

And there is a good example. Sometimes I agree with Lass and sometimes I agree with datun, and sometimes I disagree with them both. In a sense so what? If people feel hounded off the fwr boards, why don't I. I don't think I am particularly resilient.

"You must be a pleasure to be around" - when not amused by sexist jokes.

I don't feel hounded off the board here. I have posted on here several times under various usernames asking questions relevant to the thread and been completely ignored while the regulars carry on their banter.

I consider myself a feminist although there's a hell of a lot of things and terminology I don't understand. A lot of the posters on this board seem very educated but not especially willing to educate others, just pour scorn on them.

This isn't meant as a dig, it's how I have felt posting on this board.

Well I think it's a great thread - and I like the fact that we're all analysing whether or not posters are critical, patronising, hostile, unkindetc. It's because we care - and I don't mind whether that's socialised or genetic. I like it that we bother and I like it that we centre women in our thinking and our actions and try to unpick how to be welcoming and positive to all
evenwhenwedon'tquitemanageit .

As an older feminist who goes back to the 1970s /80s - these arguments raged back then in similar terms. This is just the same old shit - women being criticised by others (including other women) for voicing difficult / challenging opinions and at times doing so forcefully.

Oh sorry flipperty. I'm never sure of etiquette if a threads moved on so sometimes I do ignore questions a while back.
I'm not sure who the regulars are what with all the name changing!

I think because I really, really don't understand why some people hate feminists so much.

Very good question. I don't think there is a decisive factor for all. Some just want to be superior to women. Women belong in the kitchen, serving men, pleasing men. That kind of stuff. Some don't necessarily think that but lack any sort of empathy. They don't perceive women to be worse off. These are the types that would point to equal rights before the law, that would try to debunk assault statistics, would mention men's problems as a counter. That don't understand consent, say things like "women need to take responsibility for their actions".

Flipperty - I don't post very often and have also felt the same - but from lurking on here more and more I think that posters behave in the same way as on the rest of Mumsnet - they get caught up in discussions and just don't 'notice' others - a bit like lots of groups, workplaces etc.
I've started to put in my views much more often recently and generally felt very welcome - apart from the (male) poster who recently told me that I couldn't be a real feminist because blah, blah, blah..

Flipperty, do you find that that is particular to the feminist board though? Sometimes I can be on a thread in chat and think ' is anyone going to answer my bloody question' or I can be on another thread and there will be a number of people saying 'well I agree with birds' when I have said something utterly inane!

LassWiTheDelicateAir

Yes, me too! That's why I enjoy these boards. Sometimes they can get very intense and talk about things I have no real knowledge of. Or interest in, tbh. I often don't comment when I don't have utter conviction. But I put that down, largely, to the fact that I simply don't have the exact same experience as other people. And therefore my opinion is not informed, enough.

But in terms of the general feeling, I mostly agree with it.

What's incredibly interesting to me, is that I found this quite late in life. So I feel as though I have a foot in both camps.

So whilst I disagree with the people who stay the feminist board is aggressive, and man hating or whatever, I understand why they say it.

I see an enormous difference in feminists who totally get it, but simply disagree, and feminists who disagree because they just don't 'see' things the same way.

'I am female and I have opinions about women's rights , women's place in society and women's issues. It is not comparable in the way you suggest. Not believing in Christ would indeed mean I'm not a Christian. Not saying I am a feminist does not stop me being female'

Eh?? You're female because you have XX chromosomes, it's a biological fact, nothing to do with belief. You aren't, however, a feminist, which is an entirely different thing

birdsdestiny

I completely agree. I sometimes look at AIBU and think what the fuck?

It can get very messy, very quickly.

Eh?? You're female because you have XX chromosomes, it's a biological fact, nothing to do with belief. You aren't, however, a feminist, which is an entirely different thing

As I said before I do not consider sticking "I am a feminist " or "as a feminist" adds anything to, or for that matter , detracts from the validity of a point.

I am a woman, biologically. I am entitled to express an opinion on issues which affect women.

Bertrand for example has said many times she does not consider the views of liberal feminists who are "pro-sex" are compatible with feminism yet they call themselves feminists. So what exactly is this "entrely different thing" which may or may not be a feminist who is allowed (by you) to post on here?

You have said many times you're not a feminist lass. Has that changed?

You have said many times you're not a feminist lass. Has that changed?

No. What makes you think that? I've just twice now that I don't think any of my opinions acquire or lose weight just because I say I'm a feminist. I see no need to say I am.

Saying other posters are lying because they put forward a point you don't agree with = not a good thing. That has happened recently.

I genuinely have no idea what you're on about lass. This is a feminist board for feminists. Of course anyone can post here but the response from feminists will be from a feminist point of view.

I'm incredibly glad I found this board. If it means anything, I think the regular posters are fantastic and it's my favourite place to discuss things. I far prefer it to all other social media and find it extremely supportive. Thanks to all the posters who make it so.

I think FWR is perhaps a bit more erudite than other bits of MN. I suspect if we did a quick poll, we would find that, on average, the education levels of regular FWR posters are higher than - say - regular Property & DIY posters*, and the level of discourse and rigour that gets applied to the arguments and discussions on here reflects that.

I can see that could be off-putting to someone who doesn't feel that they fit in.

I also think that non-FWR posters who tend towards the lib fem might find it an uncomfortable place to be (because we are mostly rad fem leaning on here, and being a minority is always uncomfortable). Plus it is very easy to take comments about a wider group (whether that's shaving, changing name on marriage, or whatever) personally when they are choices that we have made ourselves. No-one likes that, so are naturally defensive.

*Example chosen only because it's another board that I frequent, not to cast a slur on Property posters

I honestly cannot see anything aggressive on this thread. I have learnt lots from the feminist boards. I don't agree with everything (I am especially conflicted about the issues around trans). I have seen heated, robust debate but that's ok imo.