Why are feminists so aggressive?

[BertrandRussell]

This, or something like it, it always being asked. People say that the FWR board on here is scary and hounds out people whose faces don't fit. That women are always being told they can't be feminists if.......And so on. And so on.

In my experiences, you are much more likely to get an aggressive response if you express a feminist point of view than the other way round. Is it just me? Or am I missing something?

There have been plenty of interesting feminists threads recently, where everyone seems to be holding their own- but the same old accusations keep coming up.

BertrandRussell You asked the question People say that the FWR board on here is scary and hounds out people whose faces don't fit. That women are always being told they can't be feminists if.......And so on. And so on.

I saw it because it came up in Active. I seldom venture on FWR because I find it intimidating and have been snarled at before (I NC regularly).
I tried to explain my feeling in my post upthread and guess what?

If you don't agree with feminism there's nothing wrong with that. Be assured that feminists will continue to fight to gain and protect every right you have regardless of how you feel.
A perfect example of patronising passive aggression, designed to put me in my place and make it clear that my views are wrong and I'm not welcome here.

Perhaps I sometimes confuse anger with aggression. That is why I said the tone of the thread was aggressive.
I also said the anti male vitriol was on MN not specifically this thread.

I'll persevere with my own stance on feminism and trying to teach my sons to challenge inequality and sexism, but I no longer call it feminism because the very word now has such negative connotations.

Martha, I don't control the board. You are welcome to go wherever you want. I'm not duty bound to agree with you in order to make you feel ok. If you have views you'd like to express, discuss and defend, go ahead. You can completely ignore me if you want.

This board isn't about us all happily supporting each other, it's about discussing sometimes difficult and contentious topics and sometimes it gets close to the bone. If someone pisses you off, say 'you're pissing me off' and carry on talking, don't run away. It's not necessary for other people to mind your feelings (the exception being of course when someone is discussing something difficult/personal and does need support).

Yes it is

"Why has FWR boards got a bad name?"

"Because we've had the following bad experiences....."

"Your wrong and what do you expect if you're not really a feminist"

'I also shave all over, believe strongly in gender neutral bathrooms and think that the movement to ban pornography is almightily problematic.'

The shaving thing is neither here not there, shave if you like, no one cares.

The gender neutral bathrooms thing and the banning porn thing could be difficult to justify from a feminist point of view but it very much depends on why you hold those views (it's not clear from what you've said).

Yep, all feminists are vile horrible creatures.

It's absolutely true.

^The shaving thing is neither here not there, shave if you like, no one cares.

The gender neutral bathrooms thing and the banning porn thing could be difficult to justify from a feminist point of view but it very much depends on why you hold those views (it's not clear from what you've said).^

Yet all these things over the last many years of occasional forays into the feminism board have resulted in mass deletions (yet never my posts) calls of troll and being called a handmaiden.

Buddy hell, I think ice cream and prosecco are in order and a weepie

'Yet all these things over the last many years of occasional forays into the feminism board have resulted in mass deletions (yet never my posts) calls of troll and being called a handmaiden.'

Ok, I've not seen that (despite being on this board pretty much every day) but I'll take your word for it. Is it your view that feminists just get angry for nothing?

I should say, I have seen very obvious trolling and understandably angry/silly responses to that, but I haven't seen anyone arguing things in good faith being called names.

Nope but I do think the feminism boards are less a place for open discussion and more a place for like minded individuals to agree with each other.

Every now and again threads like this start up were regulars like to reassure themselves that the reputation isn't earned but nothing really changes.

I have seen very obvious trolling and understandably angry/silly responses to that,

Ever consider that was someone genuinely offering an alternative perspective?

If the women who post here are letting feminism down and doing it a disservice why don't you take over the board and continue to discuss things and try to change opinions? Or are all the women here a lost cause in your eyes, not worth any time or attention? Beyond telling them how awful they are and how much they're damaging feminism, and so on.

No, it was obvious trolling, usually deleted after a while.

I can't answer for everybody of course but from my point of view I'll engage with any well-argued point. I don't engage usually with general unsubstantiated criticisms (like the idea that all feminists hate men).

I'm white. I've been reading a lot of stuff (on the 'Bitch' website, which is subtitled a feminist response to pop culture) about 'Beckys' and white women's privilege and racist behaviours.

It's been a real challenge to read this stuff without feeling that it's purely attacking white women and is in itself racist. But then I ask myself if I speak like that about men, e.g 'men oppress women'. And the answer is yes I do, and actually I feel I'm reasonable to do so. Because men as a group do oppress women as a group.

So I have to properly pay attention to the criticism of white women as a group and their part in racism towards black women as a group even though it often feels like a personal attack.

I think some of the 'Becky' stuff is just sexism disguised as radical discussions about racism and as 'Bitch' is American it's therefore culturally slightly different to the UK. However that doesn't mean I ought not inspect my own behaviour based on what I read even if it does feel aggressive. And frankly I have to accept the truth some of it. Any criticism of your own behaviour feels like an attack but that doesn't mean you can't examine it properly. Some of it may be wrong in your opinion and you can put it aside. But that doesn't make it worthless.

A couple of days ago someone said ''if you say XYX you are an arsehole' and called the radical feminists right wing. I've never seen a radfem say anything like that, and we get called out for less.

Yes. It was me. I got called the arsehole, personally. Which is really out of order but I didn't report it as I felt it should stay up.

I can't blame them about the "Becky" because we can be part of the problem too, especially how we react and treat people who are not white.

Here is one (extreme) example: www.google.com/amp/s/mobile.nytimes.com/2017/01/27/us/emmett-till-lynching-carolyn-bryant-donham.amp.html

I lurk a lot on the feminism board and only occassionally post. But I have never felt patronised or felt it to be aggressive.There are many difficult discussions and often people get cross, but that happens on lots of threads ( except The Archers one) . What I am trying to say is that it feels as if feminists on MN are claimed to be aggressive when actually they behave in the same way as people on all other boards. Except for aibu which is shit scary.

Perhaps because men don't like their little boxes in their brains to touch? And women don't do humour. Because they have so much to think about!

Yanbu Bert, bloody hormonal women!!

On a related note, I've seen a weird increase of people claiming all around mn that they stay away from FWR and then listing a load of choosey choice opinions that apparently "we" (the FWR Borg... - @Lass I think you might be included in that too!!) all share and how much they won't be welcome because of it.

Can I ask the people who think these boards are aggressive and they get hounded off why they think that is.

Not what they say, but why you think it's aggressive? Presumably there is a reason why you think that?

Feminists are not aggressive. RIP Kate Millet.

The feminist boards haven't chosen anything, they're boards. They are however, used by feminists who have feminist opinions. If you don't agree with feminism then you're probably not a feminist, that seems pretty obvious. Would you go on the religion board and say 'I'm a Christian but I don't believe in Jesus' and expect anybody to agree with you?? Saying you have a certain set of beliefs implies that you believe those things. If you don't believe them then you don't believe them, that's fine but claiming that you are still part of that group despite not believing (when belief is the defining factor) is odd

I am female and I have opinions about women's rights , women's place in society and women's issues. It is not comparable in the way you suggest. Not believing in Christ would indeed mean I'm not a Christian. Not saying I am a feminist does not stop me being female.

I don't think adding "As a feminist...." makes the opinion which follows more or less valid.

I have my own views on issues which affect women - sometimes they accord with radical feminism- sometimes they don't. Sometimes the radical feminist position seems absurd, hypocritical and exaggerated.

I don't entirely agree with Scaryclown but I can see where she is coming from here.
One of the serious issue I have is that in order to recruit women to feminism, the movement currently relies on repositioning the safest world conditions we have ever had for both sexes but especially for women, as the most dangerous, stay in the house fear-filled nightmare conditions, so that their arguments can gain traction. Making women afraid, so you can feel like both the expert and the kindly shoulder is abusive, not feminist

And this Feminists say that[society says]women are in danger, can't be bosses, shouldn't do science etc etc. (I have altered Scary's post)

Or listing all the things they say society tells girls they must do or cannot, which often strike me as being a bit over-egged.