Why are feminists so aggressive?

[BertrandRussell]

This, or something like it, it always being asked. People say that the FWR board on here is scary and hounds out people whose faces don't fit. That women are always being told they can't be feminists if.......And so on. And so on.

In my experiences, you are much more likely to get an aggressive response if you express a feminist point of view than the other way round. Is it just me? Or am I missing something?

There have been plenty of interesting feminists threads recently, where everyone seems to be holding their own- but the same old accusations keep coming up.

I looked up that Cardiff Metropolitan story and there's nothing there about the word history.

You can read the whole policy document online if you want (I googled for it) - actually, it comes across quite thoughtfully, nothing unreasonable there at all (unless you think it's your goddess given right to use gendered words for people anyway!)

anti male vitriol

I hear this all the time - please, please, point some out!

I looked up that Cardiff Metropolitan story and there's nothing there about the word history.

Yes, you are correct, but the poster was probably doing it from memory, so I feel you are probably nit-picking just a little bit. It was six months or so ago.

So, please tell us how you feel about banning certain words because they are perceived as "sexist".

There's no need to run away Martha. If you don't agree with feminism there's nothing wrong with that. Be assured that feminists will continue to fight to gain and protect every right you have regardless of how you feel.

"Well I daren't post on here. Even on this thread the tone is confrontational and aggressive."

I'm quite close to you in age- please could you point out the aggression? Genuine question. And please could you say what you mean by anti male vitriol?

I wasn't nit-picking, I was responding the actual point that was made. Starting a campaign to have a person kicked off campus for not using more 'neutral' word than history is total nonsensical and makes the whole thing look pointless. It entirely misrepresents the whole event, so it's not just some small thing.

In answer to your second part, I find it surprising that in 2017 educated people have to be told not to use sex-specific words. I think if they had to do it, they had to do it, but really they shouldn't have had to do it.

But what she said happened didn't happen.

Didn't it?

Which part of it didn't happen?

Unfortunately their experience of reading about or talking about the subject among their generation is that feminism = anti male

Out of interest, how old are they?

It's certainly not my experience amongst my generation. Most of my friends are libfems, some are radfems, some are male and identify as feminist allies. Not a single one is anti-male.

Because if you disagree vehemently with people on the Feminism board it becomes very unpleasant indeed.

If you continue to argue your point you get called a handmaiden, troll and it becomes very personal indeed. Quite unpleasantly so. Apparently there were a fair number of reports that I was a man imposing that night, despite the fact I was posting in my regular name with a long consistent posting history. It was so unpleasant I name changed and never ventured on the femonism boards again. I did however have one poster apologise and a few pm from people who agreed but didn't feel confident enough to post.

As always when a group of people gather together there develops a party line. It makes people feel they are more right when someone else agrees with them. Pack mentality takes over. People who disagree slowly slip away. It's how a movement gains strength but animosity also.

As far as can see it's mostly one section of the population railing about how another section of the population telling you how to think dress speak etc.... whilst doing the exact same thing themselves.

Turned me right off feminism.

I hear this all the time - please, please, point some out!

I think some people just don't like it when women point out that like 90% of violent crime are committed by males. (Men are apparently allowed to say this, otherwise I suppose we'd not have any statistics on it at all)

Or when women point out that men, as a class, oppress women, as a class.

It is almost like they never really paid attention at what men say about women.
The anti-female vitriol is omnipresent, but acknowledged by ... pretty much no one.

There's no need to run away Martha. If you don't agree with radical feminism there's nothing wrong with that.

Fixed that Because, lets be honest here, it's radical feminism that can tend to give off an 'anti-male' vibe at times. (I appreciate it's not intended that way, but it's clearly the way it comes across.)

Also this - Be assured that feminists will continue to fight to gain and protect every right you have regardless of how you feel.

More of that infantilising I was talking about. It's very 'there, there dear, just you let the more educated feminists do what we know is right for you and we'll just keep ignoring your dissenting opinions.'

While I don't think it should get personal toffee, if you disagree with feminism then you're not going to get on very well with it are you? So if you come on a feminist board and disagree with feminist ideas people are going to respond strongly. I don't think it should become nasty, but people will defend their views quite strongly.

So, please tell us how you feel about banning certain words because they are perceived as "sexist".

Well, pretty much the same way as I feel about banning words that are racist - ie. probably, on the whole, a good thing.

Personally I can't see the problem with saying 'firefighter' instead of 'fireman' since there are a fair few women who are firefighters. etc.

Turned me right off feminism.

Gracious. OK, fair enough, does that mean that it's OK for me to be 'turned right off men' given the sexist abuse I've received online (and for pretty innocuous stuff like having an opinion on a type of car for example) - or would that be an example of 'vitriol against men' or man-hating?

@Toffeelatteplease

Totally agree with this -
As far as can see it's mostly one section of the population railing about how another section of the population telling you how to think dress speak etc.... whilst doing the exact same thing themselves.

TheSparrowhawk

MarthaMcMartha literally says she's a feminist; That she believes in feminism; States she has actively challenged stereotypes and raised sons to be feminist; But because she thinks that your approach is hostile and aggressive, you condescend to her, misrepresent her position and count her as separate from the movement.

I can't imagine where these hostile impressions come from.

Yes I agree the tone is infantilising Brazen and it's not a good look. But it is frustrating to hear women say 'I don't agree with feminism' when, without feminism, they would have no right to vote, no right to own property, no right to have custody of their own children, no right to education, no right to work in many fields, no right to bodily autonomy, no right not to be raped in marriage, no right to stand for election, pretty much no rights at all. It genuinely baffles me how women can look at the movement that gave them everything they have and say 'nah, I don't agree with it.'

There are people on this board that don't realise the damage they are doing to the feminist movement. They are incapable of discussing an issue without resorting to personal insults, aimed at other women as well as men. If you don't share their view then - in their opinion - you can't be a feminist. And apparently it's only their opinion that counts.

I hope the more aggressive posters take this on board as constructive feedback, and understand that their current behaviour does far more harm than it does good.

So if you come on a feminist board and disagree with feminist ideas people are going to respond strongly

That's part of the problem isn't it though. When theres only one way to be a feminist or hold feminist view, there doesn't leave much room for debate. Only people getting together and congratulating each other on their excellent feminist views.

Personally I think there are a lot of difference ways to promote female interests.

When the suffragettes were fighting for women to get the vote, many women didn't agree with them - they called them aggressive, said they were harming women, destroying society etc. It's a pretty standard response tbh. If feminists changed tack every time someone said 'you're not nice enough' women would have literally nothing.

In answer to your second part, I find it surprising that in 2017 educated people have to be told not to use sex-specific words. I think if they had to do it, they had to do it, but really they shouldn't have had to do it.

I'm sure you are familiar with the novel "1984", and the concept of "Newspeak".

Now, whilst realising it was only a novel, surely you can see the correlation between language and control.

It genuinely baffles me how women can look at the movement that gave them everything they have and say 'nah, I don't agree with it.'

Because a movement can have done fantastic stuff in the past but have lost its way now.

'That's part of the problem isn't it though. When theres only one way to be a feminist or hold feminist view, there doesn't leave much room for debate. Only people getting together and congratulating each other on their excellent feminist views.

Personally I think there are a lot of difference ways to promote female interests'

I see what you're saying, and in some ways I agree - there are some things that are definitely up for debate. But some things are fundamental to feminism, in that if you don't believe them then you're not a feminist - it's not the case that feminism covers absolutely everything a woman can possibly do IYSWIM.

Yes of course I can see the correlation between language and control formerly. Language has been used for centuries to control women and to belittle them - 'girl' as an insult being a prime example. Tipping the balance the other way in a very small fashion serves to right that situation somewhat.

"If you don't share their view then - in their opinion - you can't be a feminist."

Can you show me where this happens?

'Because a movement can have done fantastic stuff in the past but have lost its way now.'

Yes that is a possible thing. However I don't feel that's the case with feminism, given that the aim of it has not changed at all.