Why are feminists so aggressive?

[BertrandRussell]

This, or something like it, it always being asked. People say that the FWR board on here is scary and hounds out people whose faces don't fit. That women are always being told they can't be feminists if.......And so on. And so on.

In my experiences, you are much more likely to get an aggressive response if you express a feminist point of view than the other way round. Is it just me? Or am I missing something?

There have been plenty of interesting feminists threads recently, where everyone seems to be holding their own- but the same old accusations keep coming up.

I think if you're a feminist that's read and debated things quite a lot then it's likely that much of your thinking comes from a very solid foundation of ideas that don't change much. So with every new situation you just evaluate the facts against that foundation and come up with a viewpoint, which many feminists who have also read and debated a lot will also come up with. I think if you're less familiar with feminism as a body of thought then that process can appear a bit baffling and inaccessible. In my case, I don't evaluate each and every issue from square one - I have a stable set of values that I measure everything against and each thing either 'passes' or doesn't.

I read far more than I post on here, and have never felt excluded or that the forum has a clique.

I also agree that feminists seem to be held to higher standards than others are. Presumably because they see injustice and call it out, they are already seen as 'angry'. And from then on, it's confirmation bias. Posts pointing out injustice and inconsistency are seen as more aggressive than posts doing similar on other parts of the site, because feminists have already admitted they are angry about the state of the world.

I also think that most of us feel that we were gaslighted by the world for a long time -everything is fair really, anything that seems unequal is just the result of biological differences, you need to take responsibility for keeping yourself safe in a world where there are violent men who can't be taught not to be violent by a less gendered upbringing. I think when you suddenly see the light, you feel very protective about the new information you hold and your new world view. Especially when the world keeps trying to make you doubt it.

Sparrowhawk yes that's exactly how it seemed to me years ago when I first discovered FWR, a bit impenetrable and, I must admit, a bit ott in terms of how oppressed we are/the threat from men. Not aggressive though. Having lurked ever since, I agree with the majority here though still feel (not in a bad way) that I don't have much to contribute.

I find it odd that a certain group of posters are seen as being gatekeepers of some sort on the feminism board - I think by many I'm seen as being part of that group

You have on several occasions told me I have business posting here- including this thread.

Actually staunch is usually used with people in the Orange Order, DUP hence why I find it an aggressive term

"Staunch" is used both pejoratively and in commendably for all sorts of political and religious beliefs, supporters of sports teams and the like.

Socialists and Communists are frequently staunch. In the dim and distant past I've described myself as a staunch Labour supporter.

^Raymond Daniel | Bristol Post
www.bristolpost.co.uk › story
24 Jun 2014 - AMUCH-loved gentleman, soldier and staunch socialist has died, aged 86^

Could you quote me where I said on this thread that you had no business posting Lass?

You know perfectly well what I'm referring to. All that querying about not being a feminist. The feminist boards being for feminists. It is not the first time you have done it.

The bit where you "failed" to understand why simply being a woman means I have an interest in what is being discussed.

Yes I asked you about being a feminist. I also said anyone can post here but response from feminists will be from a feminist point of view. At no point did I say you have no business posting here.

Oh for heaven's sake staunch is applied only to Scots or Northern Irish. Is anyone seriously suggesting that Nigel Farage is staunch in his politics? He's obviously a right wing politician who flirts openly with the far right. He's not staunch though.

Staunch is synonymous with religion and politics. Ian Paisley is one that comes to mind. Arlene Foster is another.

Lass is on these boards contributing to prostitution/sex work and porn in a way that is very positive for feminism.

People get such a kick out of a feminist putting a foot wrong. I just don't understand it at all

Lass is a non feminist, woman's rights supporter.

Can't get aeriated over a pink hairband, but can get scathingly eloquent over prostitution.

She may disagree with that.

Lol (non ironic).

Given I've apparently questioned you and you're still here Lass, I'm not much of a gatekeeper am I? I don't expect you to leave just because you irritate me.

I have no intention of leaving.

I disagree about "staunch" only being applied to Scots or Northern Irish politics. It isn't a meaning I would have thought of.

Republicans (both meanings) Unionists (all types) Communists can all be staunch.

www.standard.co.uk/comment/comment/alastair-campbell-even-as-a-staunch-republican-i-am-full-of-praise-for-the-young-royals-a3554471.html

All this twisting of people's words does nothing constructive, it really pees me off.

There's such a clear vested interest in discrediting feminists (talking generally now).

I've just listened to a podcast on gender equality in CEOs with a brilliant woman trying so hard, and I thought "they just don't want us in their gang". That's what we're up against.

If you do a search on "staunch" on here the place is heaving with "staunch Labour supporters" !

Elendon I appreciate you might have had to endure the people you associate with that term but it is not synonymous with that type of politician.

Give it up Lass

There is no such thing as a staunch republican anymore. It simply wouldn't get them votes. That boat has sailed.

Not that I'm being aggressive or anything by disagreeing with you.

Of course the DM are going to say staunch because it knows exactly what it means.

I would have thought you would look beyond that? Lass

shrugs shoulders>

The word staunch is an odd one. If you write staunch feminist, it has a slightly negative connotation. But that's largely because it's followed by the word feminist.

Yes, it implies commitment and dedication to whatever cause, but it's the word feminist, afterwards that seems to make it not exactly positive.

As an aside, my newspaper said 30% of young women consider themselves feminists.

I don't know whether they are staunch, though.

Elendon- MN is littered with posters calling themselves staunch Labour voters, staunch Conservatives, staunch Republicans ( ie no monarchy) staunchly anti- abortion, staunch feminists (yes) staunch Unionists (as in No to independence) staunch Remainers

None of them (and Alastair Campbell) think staunch means what you think it means.

I would have thought you would look beyond that? Lass

Um the Campbell link is the Evening Standard. The other is The Bristol Post and other searches I've done are of MN. So no idea why you are going on about The Daily Mail.

Give over Lass

You are being a little staunch in your argument.

ES and DM are the same and the BP is a right wing rag like the other two.

Elendon - there are loads of posters on Mumsnet calling themselves "staunch...." Do a search of the board.

Sparrowhawk called herself "a very staunch radical feminist" in a thread yesterday.

And why are you going on about The Daily Mail? I haven't mentioned or quoted it.

Can one of the people who Bosses of FWR declare an end to "staunchgate"? Then we can carry on.....

Certainly staunch does have sectarian and/or negative meaning, in my experience. I can accept that it has less provocative meaning to other people in other areas. Language is like that.

This has been quite a charged discussion. The point I was making that using such language in the context of aggressive feminists, was itself aggressive. I still think that. Others disagree. OK then