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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Depressed at weddings - AIBU?

108 replies

Grawp · 23/08/2017 16:25

I work in the wedding/events industry. It seems that all weddings consist of a white dress (often with veil), the father giving the bride away (down the aisle as well as handing over during the ceremony), all male speeches and being announced as Mr & Mrs X. Also then a rush by the bride to change her name on Facebook?? In the 200+ I've done, I can count on one hand the number of times I've heard a woman speak at her wedding. Ditto the number of times it's been apparent the bride won't be changing her name. And that's before you even think about gendered favours and those "Mrs X" or "wife" stationery and signs etc. Or weddings where the groom doesn't even have a suit jacket on but the bride is groomed to within an inch of her life...

And these are not necessarily church weddings. Often people tell me they're having modern music and a modern venue and they're having a non-traditional wedding, but then it's all of the things above.

I just find it a bit depressing that people just seem to follow everything unquestioningly. I know some people say "look I know x and y aren't feminist, but it's just one day and I like the tradition and I'm a feminist the rest of the time" but I don't come across that very often.

But at the same time I benefit from people getting married (hough you could have what I do regardless of how traditional/modern your wedding is). I could try and get a different job but this one really fits well round DCs at the moment so I'm loathe to leave. So I'm a bit conflicted - I'm coming across as massively bitter I think!! I think I just need a rant.

I know everyone should be free to do what they want, but I just wonder how what they really want always seems to be what has always been done?

I know there are more important things to think about. Flame away...

OP posts:
PigletWasPoohsFriend · 23/08/2017 17:31

In the 200+ I've done, I can count on one hand the number of times I've heard a woman speak at her wedding.

We have been to 4 weddings this year. All brides have done a speech.

Will be attending one in October and one at Christmas. Brides are planning on it at those too....

Picklemuncher · 23/08/2017 17:35

I spoke at my wedding and most weddings I have been to the brides got to speak. I don't think that's the point. I think the point is that they seem so contrived to project that air of perfect happiness when most of us know how bloody hard being married is and how often it doesn't work out.

NouveauBitch · 23/08/2017 17:38

But Morris I've still got a man's surname, just given to me by my father rather than my husband. Whilst I may have had it from birth it's still only mine by dint of the men in my life.

DH and I have had quite the feminist conversion (thanks mostly to this board) and were discussing the name thing fairly recently. We would probably now pick a new surname as ours rather than his/mine and I wish this would become tradition. That each new union has a new family name and looks to the future instead of the past.

Will stop derailing the thread now.

AuroraFloyd · 23/08/2017 17:38

I married at a registry office, I didn't wear a white dress and no-one gave me away or walked me down the aisle. We didn't have an "event" with speeches etc so you would never have seen our wedding! Afterwards we just went home to pack for our holiday the next day (at a theme park).

Neither of our father's are on the marriage certificate because neither of them were in our lives at that time.

I did take his surname because I never liked mine anyway.

SpaghettiAndMeatballs · 23/08/2017 17:40

at which point might it not be just as sensible to take your husband's?

Don't you mean your husband's father's name? If you don't get to call your name your own, why does he?

MorrisZapp · 23/08/2017 17:42

No you didn't have a man's surname. You had your own one. The point isn't where the name came from, it's the fact that in adulthood you changed your identity. Men do not do this, most of them would give you a blank look if you suggested such a thing.

It doesn't matter how we came by our names, they are ours. Expecting women to change theirs in adulthood while not expecting men to is the very definition of sexism.

Ttbb · 23/08/2017 17:42

I think that you need to keep your nose out of other people's business. You are there to do a job, not judge people.

MorrisZapp · 23/08/2017 17:43

And men always seem to like their surnames and have no trouble spelling them either.

AudacityJones · 23/08/2017 17:46

Looking back there are quite a few things I wish I had done differently around our wedding. But the marriage itself so far has been quite non-patriarchal... although we've had a fair amount of essentially comments from his family about how "pussy-whipped" he is (merely because he shares chores etc and is a genuine partner iyswim). It's hard, because the patriarchy slots both men and women into these roles and with a baby on the way I can only imagine these external pressures are going to grow.

I know feminism is all about empowering women to make whatever choices are right for them! But it's frustrating that so many women still make regressive choices that hinder their potential and/or future freedom under the guise of romance or good parenting. Does that make sense? I'm all for people doing whatever they want but why is it that what they want is so bloody disempowering all the time!!

Lottapianos · 23/08/2017 17:47

Your last name is YOUR name. No one has ever told a man that his last name is his father's, not his. I will start to defend name changing as a legitimate 'choice' when men start choosing to do the same in any kind of decent numbers. Not holding my breath

OP I totally agree with you. It's downright depressing that so many people but in to all the 'tradition' wedding stuff. Waiting around for him to propose,getting an engagement ring to show you're off the market, white dresses and being 'given away, name changing. It's endless. And the obscene amount of spending. I wish we had moved past all this stuff in 2017

NouveauBitch · 23/08/2017 17:48

No I'm not expecting anyone to change their name. I'm just trying to understand this. I completely agree that expecting women to change names and not men is the definition of sexism, I'm just trying to unmuddle it in my head as, like I say, we already (most of us) carry a name given by a man. I get that you see it as my name I've had since birth but I see it as my father's name I've carried since birth. And yes, the husband's name should be the husband's father's name.

I didn't ever consider my name as mine, more a link with a toxic family which I suspect is crossing over in my mind.

Like I say I wish we had come up with a new name for our future, not one our fathers carried.

DioneTheDiabolist · 23/08/2017 17:48

Everyone should change their names to Aaronovitch.

Lottapianos · 23/08/2017 17:48

Ttbb, she's a human being, not a robot. She's blowing off a bit of steam on an anonymous forum. Wind your neck in

AudacityJones · 23/08/2017 17:50

Also if I had to do it again I wouldn't have taken my husband's name. He knows this. We had initially discussed both of us hyphenating and coming up with a new joint surname. In the run up to the wedding there were so many comments about how he was being a doormat by letting me get my way (I'm older, there were lots of issues around my family being richer and my dad being a bit of an arrogant blowhard to his family) that I ended up bending over backwards to make them feel like I was a humble good DIL. I still kept my maiden surname as well (double barelled) unlike my SIL so in the end no one was really happy. And I bristle every time anyone refers to me as Mrs DH.

vvviola · 23/08/2017 17:58

I had what was, on the face of it, a very traditional Irish Catholic wedding. I wore white-ish, had a veil, my Dad walked me down the aisle.

But, there was though put into all of it. My Dad walked me down the aisle because he had been an incredible support in all the big decisions I had ever made, and I wanted him to continue being that support. There was no "giving away". I spoke. My bridesmaids spoke. I didn't throw my bouquet (it went on my grandad's grave the next day). So while to the outside it may have appeared like I was confirming, I had considered and made decisions on everything.

I did change my name though. We already had one child and I quite liked the idea of us all having the same name.

BayLeaves · 23/08/2017 18:00

The thing is that most people don't like making speeches or public speaking. The blokes only do it because it's expected as tradition. I can't feel sorry for women not taking the "opportunity" to speak at their wedding when for many people, men and women alike, they can't think of anything more terrifying.

TheVeryThing · 23/08/2017 18:02

I do agree with you, in spite of being guilty of a couple of the things you've mentioned. I wore an ivory dress & my dad walked me down the aisle (he would have been incredibly hurt if I hadn't wanted that).
I did give a speech though, and kept my own surname.
I think would have quite a different wedding now, not in a church for starters.
It's a bit depressing how so many people go along with the traditional without ever thinking that there might be a different way of doing things. Most of the women I know took their husband's surname. I wouldn't criticise an individual choice but I can't help being depressed by the bigger picture.

Mittens1969 · 23/08/2017 18:06

Well, I'n very glad I changed my name, for reasons connected to my past that aren't relevant here. But I had my DM give me away (this was because my father had passed away and my uncle had made a fool of himself at my DDis's wedding when he got drunk and did everything wrong and I didn't want to risk that happening again!). Then my DM gave a speech at the reception as did my DSis and me (briefly).

Ok, my DH and his DB, the best man. But it was hardly a male dominated affair. I quite agree that it's very outdated to have the father hand the daughter over to her husband!

SPARKS17 · 23/08/2017 18:07

I'm getting married this year and whilst I like the thought of committing ourselves to each other for the long term I do not like the fact that I still have to get "married". I had been following the civil partnership case going through the courts recently and really hoped civil partnerships for straight folk would have come in by now. Sadly not so we are having to take the legal and financial protections of "marriage" rather than a civil partnership.

Never really thought of myself as a feminist but my dress is blush, a veil would get in my way, my dad is walking me down the aisle (but not giving me away, no permission was obtained from him), no bridesmaids or best men, our mums are signing our marriage certificate since its the only way they can get on there, I am definitely doing a speech (after all I am DPs best woman ;-)I will never refer to myself as Mrs and I love my last name so would never give it up.

Amongst my friends I am massively going against the grain by not becoming MRS NEW HUSBAND. One friend got really cross I wasn't taking his name because of the trouble it would cause our future children.....

blueshoes · 23/08/2017 18:08

You are seeing a self-selecting segment of married couples which is skewing your perception. Marriage and its accompanying traditions is by definition patriarchal. Anyone who chooses marriage clearly at some level does not mind this. Then to choose a wedding that requires your input i.e. commercial, means they are likely to embrace the often senseless and rip off bells and whistles that go with first marriages.

You are part of a wedding industry that feeds off this. Don't then bite the hand that feeds you.

Bluerose27 · 23/08/2017 18:09

I had a white dress but my mum walked me down the aisle and made a speech (my dad sadly is dead so I can't say that was feminist motivated).
I kept my name , and my husband supports that. Not that the decision was his, but there was never a question/pressure from him otherwise. My sister also made a speech at my wedding. And so did I . So actually more women spoke at my wedding than men!

What surprises me is that everyone forgets I even made a speech! I thought it would have been noteworthy for being different. It doesn't bother me, rather amuses me.
Of my cousins, I'm the only one who kept my (father's) surname.

Of my friends and work colleagues, it's probably 50/50.

Maybe the tide is turning?

KoolKoala07 · 23/08/2017 18:18

Fed up with people telling me I shouldn't have my wedding the way you've described 🙄
I had what I wanted and yes I like to be known as Mrs intact I hate the fact my passport is still Miss.

Original poster
Grawp · 23/08/2017 18:27

Some people are making the valid point that maybe the bride doesn't like public speaking, but also saying the groom doesn't necessarily like it either. So why can't we just get rid of speeches altogether if people don't like it? Apart from to say thanks for coming and let's toast the b&g?

Also very valid point blueshoes.

OP posts:
IllBeAtTheBarIfYouNeedMe · 23/08/2017 18:48

We're planning our wedding at the moment. The dress is black, no speeches and dp is taking my name. There have been lots of raised eyebrows over the really small and imo irrelevant decisions we have made for our day. My dsis added me to a Facebook wedding planning group where the women are absolutely fucking mental boarding on the hysterical in regards to traditions and planning.

From my limited experience (friends and family) the women who claim to be feminists everyday seem quite happy to put their beliefs on hold for one day. Thats their choice. I don't feel that I could make that choice but it is theirs to make and I won't judge them for it. I'll just get married to my dp at our anti traditional wedding and hope it inspires other women to do things how they want rather then how they think it should be done.

Finch82 · 23/08/2017 19:28

I got married last month. I wore an ivory knee length dress because I liked it. We had no bridesmaids and no best man. DH and I walked down the aisle together hand in hand and didn't bother with the not seeing each other the night before. We did a shared speech at the reception and that was the only speech. We loved it. Incidentally, I have taken his name but that's because I like it and I don't have a particular tie to the name I grew up with and I want to feel like we are a unit. He said he would happily change names for me when we talked all this through. The double barrel didn't work or we would have gone for this.

What did really P*#S both of us off was the patriarchal aspect of registering births and marriages in this country!!!! Have you seen a wedding certificate lately? We had to record on it our father's names and their occupations! I was REALLY cross because both our fathers are deceased (mine last year) and, although my relationship with my dad was good by the time he passed, he was a terrible dad really and this has made the grieving process really complex. It made me cry right before the wedding and I'd wanted a day not thinking about him! Angry Made me very angry!