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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Depressed at weddings - AIBU?

108 replies

Grawp · 23/08/2017 16:25

I work in the wedding/events industry. It seems that all weddings consist of a white dress (often with veil), the father giving the bride away (down the aisle as well as handing over during the ceremony), all male speeches and being announced as Mr & Mrs X. Also then a rush by the bride to change her name on Facebook?? In the 200+ I've done, I can count on one hand the number of times I've heard a woman speak at her wedding. Ditto the number of times it's been apparent the bride won't be changing her name. And that's before you even think about gendered favours and those "Mrs X" or "wife" stationery and signs etc. Or weddings where the groom doesn't even have a suit jacket on but the bride is groomed to within an inch of her life...

And these are not necessarily church weddings. Often people tell me they're having modern music and a modern venue and they're having a non-traditional wedding, but then it's all of the things above.

I just find it a bit depressing that people just seem to follow everything unquestioningly. I know some people say "look I know x and y aren't feminist, but it's just one day and I like the tradition and I'm a feminist the rest of the time" but I don't come across that very often.

But at the same time I benefit from people getting married (hough you could have what I do regardless of how traditional/modern your wedding is). I could try and get a different job but this one really fits well round DCs at the moment so I'm loathe to leave. So I'm a bit conflicted - I'm coming across as massively bitter I think!! I think I just need a rant.

I know everyone should be free to do what they want, but I just wonder how what they really want always seems to be what has always been done?

I know there are more important things to think about. Flame away...

OP posts:

IfyouseeRitaMoreno · 23/08/2017 16:38

No flaming here. I agree 100%. Of course it's everyone's individual choice and I'd never pee on anyone's parade if that's what they wanted but the fact that so many choose to go along with such an unequal practice, yes that annoys me.

allegretto · 23/08/2017 16:42

I agree! I didn't change my name but I did have my father walk me down the aisle to keep the peace. I wish I had put my foot down tbh.

VestalVirgin · 23/08/2017 16:44

Oh, I don't know. The traditional wedding and the name stuff are mostly just symptoms of the disease that is patriarchy. (Except when the name stuff causes problems for the woman)

It is the most obvious with weddings, that women just unthinkingly do things they were socialized to want, but on a larger scale, women wanting to be thin, wearing high heels or too tight shoes, spending tons of money for make-up, etc, is the larger problem.

For your own wellbeing, it seems advisable to tell yourself that those women won't be harmed by wearing an enormous white dress one day. There's no need to feel guilty for participating in the wedding industry.

The attitude with which someone goes through life is what harms them - if you didn't let them have their wedding dress and being given away by their fathers, they'd still live their lives along to patriarchal patterns, so ...

OlennasWimple · 23/08/2017 16:44

I agree. Marriage in general is one of the hardest things for (first world) feminists to negotiate, I think. On the one hand women get certain protections from being married, on the other there are real costs to us - starting with the ceremony that gets us those protections.

If I was going to get married now, I would do a few things differently. I may or may not take DH's surname. I would definitely speak at the reception. I would probably still have a white dress. I didn't use a veil the first time around or have "wife" signs up, so those are moot.

My dad walked with me down the aisle, and I would do that again, purely for his sake. There was no "who giveth this woman?" at the end of the aisle, but I would have hurt him immensely not to have had him do that role. I would probably ask my mum to walk with us, but I strongly suspect that she would rather not, as she is very traditional in certain ways.

grasspigeons · 23/08/2017 16:44

Maybe the non traditional people aren't going down the wedding events industry route. Perhaps there is a humanist celebrant somewhere thinking 'you never see a traditional wedding anymore'

But you are right, it does seem that women are still given from one man to another in most cases.

BayLeaves · 23/08/2017 16:45

YABU. I am a feminist and had a fairly traditional wedding. We did everything you mention apart from being given away during the ceremony - I don't see many people doing that these days although most people do have a male family member walking them down the aisle. I feel that getting married is in itself an age-old tradition, no matter how you go about it. So I don't see the problem with the traditions, as long as people aren't feeling compelled to indulge in any traditions they feel uncomfortable with. I'm happy to be Mrs X because I had no particular affection for my maiden name and it felt good to have a change.

MorrisZapp · 23/08/2017 16:48

My two closest friends did the whole proposal/ring/white dress/mens speeches thing. I was delighted to celebrate with them because it's fun and who doesn't love a party, but fuck me. So many inward 'really?' moments. Why oh why oh why...

And it's getting worse not better. Fb bragging now a factor too.

GallopingMom · 23/08/2017 16:51

My parents both walked into the venue with me and then sat down.
My dress was light green.
I gave a speech.
I did change my surname.

Until I recently started reading this board I knew very little about feminism, now I think I might be one!

drbeverlyhofstadter · 23/08/2017 16:53

I had a v non traditional wedding - eloped no family celebrant etc.. I planned it all myself online so perhaps the above poster is correct that you just aren't seeing those types of weddings.

In saying that I did become Mrs inserthusbandssurname we knew we wanted children and I wanted us to have a family surname without double barrell nonsense. If I could go back and create our own new surname that would have been better (and would have pissed off the in-laws so win win)

TheCraicDealer · 23/08/2017 17:01

Blame etsy and NotOnTheHighStreet for all the "Mr & Mrs" shite, it's everywhere! I'm not changing my name and the amount of decor, stationary and other stuff I've had to discount because I'm not becoming Mrs DP is unreal. I've had to put on our wedding website (don't flame me! It was mostly accommodation and travel info for travelling guests) that neither of us are changing our names and could people please take this into account if they decide to give us a gift. I do judge the haste and enthusiasm some women show in changing their name, like it's some sort of sign of being a "grown up" when in reality you're sacrificing a bit of your own identity.

I'm guilty of having my dad give me away, but NI is a very traditional place. My dad would be gutted if he didn't get to do it and people would 100% think it was a snub. And most importantly, I want my dad to do it. Also I'm not doing a speech, but that's because i hate public speaking and I'm not doing something I don't want to do on my wedding day.

I'm pretty much doing whatever I like, and that includes getting dressed up (so is DP to be fair) for photos for prosperity. I don't mind if you judge me for it, we all do it!

TillyTheTiger · 23/08/2017 17:07

Most of the patriarchal elements are optional - what annoyed me most was that the legal marriage certificate asks you to list the name and occupation of both your fathers, with no mention of mothers!

Nonibaloni · 23/08/2017 17:07

I am planning my wedding at the moment. No white dress or veil, no aisle, I'll be speaking (and writing the vows), no bridesmaids, no best man and I won't change my name.
I don't think I'm doing anything that radical. But I do get the off raised eyebrow. My DP think it sounds a lot better too, less like he's a bit player in the Noni show. The conditioning for weddings is unreal. Helping plan a wedding for 2 men was surreal. Much debates (from everyone else) about who went first for everything. And then pomp and ceremony added back in because "men won't want favours" "we'll skip the entrance at the breakfast" "they'll not have a wedding party".

NouveauBitch · 23/08/2017 17:11

Can I ask a question about the name thing? My maiden name was my father's name - so surely keeping his name is keeping a man's name? I took my husband's name - it was before I discovered my feminist credentials - and if we were to marry now I probably wouldn't, but I wouldn't feel comfortable keeping my father's name. What can you do, aside from choose your own surname, at which point might it not be just as sensible to take your husband's?

DioneTheDiabolist · 23/08/2017 17:11

You're obviously working in the wrong industry for you. Did you NC for this post or are you a first time poster OP?

Original poster

Grawp · 23/08/2017 17:16

Tilly yes that is annoying, there was a campaign to get mothers on the wedding certificate but it only got so far.

Noni yes the same sex weddings can actually be quite interesting, because they are so much freer to choose what they want to do and there are fewer assumptions, though obviously you found the opposite!

Yes I need to remember that I am mainly seeing the couples on one day of their lives for an event which is traditionally very patriarchal and may have no bearing on their day-to-day lives. I think one problem is that no-one around me seems to "get" it or have any problem with it, it's all "oh so romantic" blah blah blah that I get a bit If I had one of you to roll my eyes at I'm sure I'd be able to get over things quicker.

OP posts:

MorrisZapp · 23/08/2017 17:16

It's not about who the name belongs to or came from, it's your name because you've had it from birth. If it wasn't really your name then that would mean your husbands name wasn't his either as it was his father's.

MorrisZapp · 23/08/2017 17:17

The sexist certificates are an English thing. Scotland lists mothers names and occupations.

elfinpre · 23/08/2017 17:17

Our wedding was quite a traditional country wedding. Getting married wasn't something I had planned out all my life, and I was the first of my school friends to get married. So we just took ideas we liked from the (few) weddings we'd been to, which were all pretty traditional. Plus it's only recently that many other venues have been licensed for marriage. It was pretty much either church, registry office or one or two (expensive and not very good) hotels locally. I didn't really think of it as being anti-feminist. The traditions might come from treating women as chattels, but weddings and marriages are very much what the couple makes of it, and that's what counts to me.

I never thought of not changing my name. For a bit of hassle at the beginning it just seemed to make life easier after that. There will never been any question over whether we are actually married or whether my daughters are mine.

OlennasWimple · 23/08/2017 17:18

Nouveau - quite. Perhaps as more generations of children who have their mother's surname reach marrying age there will be a better answer to your question

meltingmarshmallows · 23/08/2017 17:18

I feel like as long as it's a choice and not bowing to tradition, it's not a bad thing. I changed my name as I no longer wanted my Father's name and have never felt it was something I had to do. For me the key thing is choice I guess.

Ragwort · 23/08/2017 17:19

Totally agree with you but as others have said, people who go for the 'big weddings with an event planner ' seem to be the ones happiest to go for the naff, boring traditional wedding without any thought of an original idea.

Original poster

Grawp · 23/08/2017 17:19

Dione I know, I think I'm realising this now. Ultimately I want to get into something I'm happier with and suits me better, but the pay is good for the hours I work.

I NC fairly regularly and this is my first post on this name.

OP posts:

elfinpre · 23/08/2017 17:21

Oh, I didn't give a speech as I was happy to get drunk, relax and not have that pressure. One of my bridesmaids did though, as she is a teacher and an entertaining speaker.

Original poster

Grawp · 23/08/2017 17:26

I didn't know that about Scotland Morris, that's interesting much better.

OP posts:

Picklemuncher · 23/08/2017 17:28

I might be even more skeptical than you, OP.
I think most people follow cultural norms for the most part, as boring as they may be. A lot of people feel expected to do what everyone else is doing.
FWIW I had wanted to simply elope with my husband as I had very few friends and family and simple wanted to marry what I though was my soulmate (currently going through separation). But he insisted on a 'proper wedding' and we had save up for a year and live like church mice to do it, but I really felt like a lot of it wasn't for me. On my wedding night I expected some romantic lovemaking but my STBXH roughly pinned me down and had his way and then rolled off. I couldn't really believe it as he had never ever done that before.

I had my wedding dress preserved after the ceremony as my mother had done with hers. I don't know why I did it. I recently threw it in the garbage as I am separating and realized the wedding and vows meant nothing.... Yes, I agree the custom can be a real pile of shit if you are just doing it because it's expected.

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