Reddit

[ohhohoa]

I may well get deleted or kicked off for this, I don't know. Tell me if we're not supposed to talk about other forums here and I'll report myself.

But have any of you visited Reddit's "ask transgender" page (https://www.reddit.com/r/asktransgender/)

This post in particular has me particularly for some reason now (though it's far from unique on that subreddit).

How ... but ... what?

We get to wear pretty dresses and be short?

They are exactly why we don't want to allow these very male people into female spaces where we are vulnerable. That is the reason it shouldn't happen. Because they are male and a significant number of males prey on women and like to humiliate and dominate us.

It should be enough that many women don't want this. They should be lIstened to. Apparently it isn't enough because our feelings don't matter. People need to wake up to the misogyny they are enabling.

No, I am not trying to silence you. That's what transactivists do. It's not the same. Say what you like. And I'll feel free to say that I am concerned about growing misogyny and internalised misogyny in society. And will provide evidence of it whenever I feel it is necessary. Do you think we shouldn't be able to call out online misogyny from males? Do you think "terfisaslur" or other sites documenting misogyny from transactivists and allies shouldn't exist? The context of wanting access to female spaces is the whole point. If it wasn't for that, there wouldn't be such an issue.

Short and cute? I'm a hefty 5'10, does this mean I'm oppressed?

You really think we should all just STFU don't you, Officer?

It depends what they're saying doesn't it? Dysphoria or no dysphoria, women are not objects to be used in validating their feelings.

OfficerVanHalen

Seriously, I have no intention of asking you to shut the fuck up.

And, actually, I think we are singing from the same hymn sheet, here.

The only difference is the quantity we are speaking of.

I think you feel that 'these people' are outliers and weirdos and not to be taken too seriously. Or, that they are struggling and should therefore be given houseroom.

I have a different perspective. Whilst I might, at some point, have sympathy for someone, it's totally negated by their stance. Not their suffering.

I can empathise with their suffering, whilst taking massive issue with both the reasons for it and the result from it.

At some point, one comprehensively overrides the other.

I can sincerely empathise with what they are going through, but I disagree, profoundly, with the reasons why they're going through it and what they claim.

I don't think calling out misogyny by transpeople, male or female is wrong. I didn't personally call anyone an idiot. But there are individuals and mostly they are trans allies to be honest, who I agree are idiots.

Transactivists slander gender critical feminists and cherry pick examples to disagree with all the time. We have to be able to call their shit out. The vast majority I have come across on social media are not these reasonable transpeople who just want to get on with their lives. They are narcissistic males who dislike most actual women.

I accept that this is an internet problem. But so is a lot of their activism so it's entirely relevant.

They are using suicide threats and emotional blackmail against us to control our behaviour. That is classical abuser behaviour. And we're supposed to cut them slack? Maybe when they show one iota of empathy for women.

I'm sorry, it wasn't meant to be so so personal. My comment about enabling misogyny was general, not specific to you. It's just the frustration of dealing with vile misogyny and female erasure and having to constantly pander to what might be thought "transphobic". And I'm sorry I do think the posts on Reddit are relevant and should be brought into the light. But to you I could have expressed myself better.

OfficerVanHalen

Gendertrender.
Fair play for women .
The critical feminist.
Centering women.
The women's movement UK.
ETRA
2 x mumsnetter groups who I can't name.
5 x other groups who I can't name and it wouldn't be any use anyway, because you can't search for them.

All of them just like reddit. All of them reporting on the actions of transactivists.

All bar two have been repeatedly shutdown. And had to regroup. They went from open, to closed, to secret. Because of threats and doxxing. Not because of what they said, because they merely reported what transactivists said.

And if you are talking of political aims, the political aim is to claim that biology does not exist and that a person can legally change sex. Any person. No gender dysphoria. No nothing.

So on the one hand, you have a significant number of people who are predatory, misogynistic and who have an agenda, and on the other the aim is to facilitate that legally.

You haven't really addressed any of the issues that I have raised. Just said it's wrong, not fair. Despite me pointing out that the people I'm talking about are the majority now, and they are certainly not the kind of people I want anywhere near me.

You can talk about the academic, intellectual side of transgenderism. The gender stereotyping, etc, but you also have to look at the dark underbelly.

Or not. That's always your prerogative.

OfficerVanHalen

Ok. So I think we agree on the goal and disagree on some of the method of achieving it.

Which is fine!

I don't have to have everyone agree with me.

All I do is put my point across. I may reiterate it if I think I haven't been clear or comprehensive enough.

But I think I have, now.

Genuinely glad to have had the talk.

Well, I would say the person quoted in the OP has got femininity pretty well sorted. They're expecting that it's all about being pretty and attracting men, and that it all comes naturally, but they're forgetting socialisation and body-shaming and so on.

I am fairly confident (now I'm in my 40s, not back then,) that I wasn't the only girl in my teens and early 20s who felt like she was the only one the opposite sex didn't notice, that didn't feel confident in knowing what clothes suited her or anything - but now I'm in my 40s, I know that even a lot of the popular, pretty girls felt just as unsure as I did on the inside, whatever outside appearances might have looked like. I'm fairly sure a lot of top models and filmstars will feel that way sometimes, because there's a whole media industry based on putting them down, and even when they know it's all bollocks, there are probably bad days where there's a part of them thinking, I'm going to be found out tomorrow and lose it all.

I suppose if you're investing money in yourself and how you present to the outside world, you want the best possible results. But most of us are just average, (because that's how averages work,) and we don't all turn heads when we walk down the street, and that's normal and why should they expect anything more than that? If they're not getting much attention, they've probably cracked it.

And that's before you get onto anything like all the cerebral stuff - none of them seem to consider that there's anything more than looks. I would rather be known for what I know and do than how I look, but then, despite having always been female, I never seem to have quite cracked this being a proper woman thing. Which is obviously why I am not the sort of woman they're trying to be.

Come on girls, just be nice! Why cant you see this whole thing as a compliment? These men admire you! Now, budge up, and shut up.

Only if you are pretty, beautiful young woman who so happens to conform to socially accepted beauty norms.

Some really despise it when we don't. They actually get angry when they see ones who are not embracing their femininity (to their liking).

It's very telling that if you do happen to engage, they quickly resort to insults about looks. Straight for what they perceive as an Achilles heel.

I've seen women called ugly, fat, hairy, unfuckable more times than I can count. I've seen transactivists outraged that they can't find a profile picture of the person in order to pull it apart.

Usually culminating in them attempting to make (highly linguistically creative) mincemeat of one's anatomy.

Frankly, I rarely see it bothering women. It's so obvious. But it's very telling that they honestly believe that this is the best way to insult a woman.

Obviously, there is a lot of projection going on, but it also shows where their value lies.

Yes, definitely.

I missed the boat on being short and cute

I like /r/gendercritical for more balanced views!