I am Jazz. ***Trans content. Please do not open if you just want to post insults or whinge about another trans thread***

[CosmicPineapple]

I am Jazz is a reality show focusing on the journey of a teenage transgirl/woman whos parents supported transition from aged 5 and has been on TV since aged 6.
Now aged 16.

I don't watch the show as I strongly disagree with everything about it. However I briefly saw a clip of the next episode as the tv happened to be on the channel that airs I am Jazz I had been watching say yes to the dress and it was about dating.

Jazz goes to a sort of speed dating event where everyone is sat in the dark. Jazz wants a relationship, which is normal for a teenager however Jazz does not tell the boys/men that they are trans and in fact male.
As they are in darkness Jazz feels that if they get to know each other without the barrier of seeing each other/being trans it may lead to a relationship.

For me this is totally wrong.
Why should it be ok for Jazz or anyone to withold the truth about a very important aspect of who they are?
Plus I would imagine there to be some very upset and angry teenage boys when they find out they have been duped and lied to.

I remember a good few years ago where a man killed his partner after finding out on a TV show that they were trans. There have been a few similar murders over the years.
I am in no way condoning the murder or harm of another person I am just highlighting the danger that can come if you lie about the sex you are and it should not be encouraged as no relationship can survive on lies.

I just wondered what other peoples thoughts are on the subject of lying about your sex to the people you date?

I think putting it down to a medicinal side effect is frankly being charitable.

They are so mentally unwell that they claim to be a woman despite having a penis and make endless vlogs to justify it, I don't think they're troubled by the need to have any real evidence for their symptoms. Their brains just create them out of nowhere.

Just caught thread, and what Datun writes on page 10, at top, is ENTIRELY correct.

Honestly, I have written loads about this before on MN, living with a man like this, and it has been one hell of a learning curve.

Perhaps it's more a culmulative thing, alpaca. I've read loads of threads on Reddit and elsewhere with MTT describing the day that they started hormone treatment as the best day of their lives. I don't doubt that taking a positive step towards achieving a desired outcome is bound to play a large role in how they respond, but I do jsut wonder whether there is a bit of chemical stuff in there too

I'm not convinced that as a group, they can be reliably counted on to report truthfully/accurately.

I've read/watched too many blogs/vlogs which start off saying what aaaamazing sex and orgasms they are having, only to go on and contradict themselves by saying it took two hours with a sex toy to get something resembling an orgasm and nobody wants to have sex with them. It's like listening to streams of consciousness that reflect whatever narrative suits in the moment. The period thing is bunkum.

I never watch this show, but oddly I saw it this week because I was up doing some work and I couldn't find the controller to switch it over.

Aside from how uncomfortable I felt for Noelle during the Dating in the Dark scene, the worst bit was Jazz's parents faux planning to protect Jazz from the crowds at Pride, because they were due to be on a float and Jazz has crippling social anxiety. How about just not making your anxious child do something like that... oh but then you wouldn't have material for your show that you are milking off the back of your child's mental health you avaricious a-holes.

I was under the impression that estrogen was a bit of a magical hormone anyway. Doesn't it produce serotonin? Isn't that the feelgood chemical?

From what I understand it's not about the amount of estrogen you have but the way it 'communicates' with your body and the rest of your hormones.

Although, conversely, plummeting levels after menopause seem to create a more even mood.

I think it can account for mood swings in women, but only conjunction with other female hormones, so maybe a man taking it, with no other process going on, just gets the feelgood aspect?

Either way, introducing foreign chemicals into your body and you suddenly feeling great, seems far more about that chemical, than you suddenly getting a hormone that you think matches, or completes, your gender identity.

The often heard assertion that as soon as homones started they knew they had completed their journey sounds much more likely to be the result of a high, than the achievement of an ideological goal.

The effect of spiro really took me by surprise. It worked amazingly well on my skin, so within a couple of days I was feeling better about myself because I could see the results, but even before then there was a marked effect on my mood. DH remarked that it was like I had started taking prozac

OlennasWimple

I suppose every mood in existence can be attributed to chemicals. We're not machines after all. It's galling though, isn't it? That we can't all just be on top of our game, all the time, through sheer force of will!

I can totally see how certain drugs can be addictive, even without the heavy backdrop of purporting to magically change oneself into something completely different

I completely agree with you Olenna. Oestrogen is a feel good chemical and what you say about spirolactone is interesting too. I wonder whether females who inject testosterone get a similar rush/high.

re. "periods" - I fell down the rabbit hole of reading trans blogs a while back and apparently some transwomen choose to take the hormones in cycles so it mimics fluctuating female hormone levels. It was described as a sort of balancing, spiritual cleanse or something!

They also claim that their imaginary "cycles" sync up with the females they're around - apparently, like a lot of people, they haven't got the memo that period syncing is a myth!

Poor Jazz. God, what a fucked up life to lives

I'm sorry to be pedantic but the term 'the right side of history' is meaningless. History does not have a wrong or right side, well not unless you believe in teleology, and that history is a process towards some predefined and desirable end point. However, if you did, you would be wrong and would also be allying yourself with some very dubious ideologies.

SaskiaRembrandtWasFramed

The first time I heard that expression, I was struck by the effectiveness of it. It has a disturbing way of putting what you're saying in the context of other historical disasters.

I hadn't realised it was part of any kind of belief system.

For what it's worth, it became hackneyed very quickly, in my opinion.

But it does demonstrate that language is important. And these soundbites incentivise people.

Although, I believe, that particular one is now having a more negative effect than anything else because of its overuse.

Like the word transphobe. It's just synonymous with shut up.

I think if that phrase can be said to mean anything, it is not the people challenging transing children and giving them sterilising hormones before they are 18, eroding sex based protections and redefining the word woman who will be seen as being on the 'wrong side'

That's a really good point Saskia. One to remember the next time anyone uses it to me

I always took it to mean "the wrong side of the historical record" - i.e. as a statement about how people and actions will be judged in years to come.

Same here yet

Me too.

Jazz always reminds me of the lad who played Betty's nephew in Ugly Betty. He has grown up to be a happy, healthy gay man, which is what Jazz should have been allowed to become.

We are so far down the rabbit hole that if you don't believe in magical thinking, inner gender and lady brains then you're a bigot.

If you apply Ockham's Razor not one part of this holds water.

I'm a bit uncomfortable about speculating anything about Jazz, his condition or sexuality to be honest. I'm quite sure that there are young people being transed who really should not be because they have comorbid mental illnesses that affect their thinking about their sex, because everyone has got caught up in 'gender means sex' and because they are terribly confused or have been abused and identify as trans because of this, etc. etc., but it really is a complex issue and there are people who have dysmorphia or similar for whom surgery is the only option (this is how it worked in the past). Simply saying 'let them be gay' or 'let them wear sparkles' isn't going to help this latter category (although, obviously, I'm all for the dismantling of gender roles and for it being OK for people to be gay). I think the place at which I stand is that each and every case is different and in its own way complex and we should not make assumptions. At the same time, the process for transing should be strict and rigorous and it should not be assumed that hormones / surgery is the best option.

I've previously read in TRA accounts that it's best to give blockers and then cross-sex hormones in order to prevent a puberty of the opposite sex. This thread has certainly given me food for thought that this is very, very misguided indeed. Is the lack of flesh for adequate penis construction when transed young acknowledged by the TRAs?

The talk of no/delayed puberty got me googling and led me to this interesting piece about what it's like not to go through puberty:

themighty.com/2016/07/receiving-a-late-diagnosis-with-kallmann-syndrome/

I always took it to mean "the wrong side of the historical record" - i.e. as a statement about how people and actions will be judged in years to come.

Yes that is a literal reading of it, and some people mean it simply like that, but many are putting that teleological sense of "progress" into it, as it's often mentioned in relation to abolition of slavery, US civil rights, gay marriage etc.

Is the lack of flesh for adequate penis construction when transed young acknowledged by the TRAs?

I've never once seen it. Ever. And they say that "puberty blockers are harmless and reversible".

I've never once seen it. Ever. And they say that "puberty blockers are harmless and reversible"

Well, maybe, if they are reversed I guess...