What's wrong with being a SAHM?

[Roseandlily]

I am not a feminist (I don't think). I currently earn more than my partner but when our baby is born I will be a stay at home mother. I love the idea of striving to be the best mother, home maker, having the tea on the table for when he gets home stuff. I love the idea of it all. But when I talk to people and they ask "oh what's your plan, how long to you plan to take off work?" And we both say I won't be going back and this will be me at home for say the next 10years give or take.

I would like to add that we would like to have 3 children so I will be at home until the last child starts school.

I don't care about amazing holidays we have done that :) or fancy cars, both had what we wanted and now have got sensible cheaper cars. We are married and have a lovely home.

What do feminists think is so wrong with this? And why do people make me feel weird about this?

people type so fast! My response was to polar bear.

Which absolutely no-one is doing 

So you agree with what I said, NoLove? That is you think it is right not to judge someone's name choice as reflective of how feminist they are?

Good.

It's obviously not reflective of how feminist they are. It's not reflective of free choice in the context it's made in either.

Spartacus this is battering my phone battery and I've had to shelter from the rain in a shopping centre to post, I think I should brave it now and get wet.

Sorry NoLove - I wasn't actually replying to you - I was replying to Polar Bear and St Francis but in the short time it took me to post there were many other replies, so this is how it appeared.

It's not reflective of free choice in the context it's made in either.

I feel the choice was free for me, NoLove. I knew the context.

Am I deluded in this? Can I never make a free choice in an unequal society? If I go against the gender stereotype, but if in the process that denies what I personally want to choose, would that be more free? No. If I conform to the gender stereotype does that mean I have been oppressed and am incapable of making a free choice?

What hope is there then?

I know Spartacus, I meant that as a frivolous comment in response to yours!

Or WideHorizon maybe there are lots of mothers who want to work just like lots of fathers do

Indeed, which is why I specifically said some (not all)

...but don't let what I actually wrote stand in the way of the point you wish to make, eh?

I mean it's not a free choice given cultural expectations and pressure on women, I don't mean every single individual case. My mum changed her surname when she married my dad, she's still a fantastic role model to me but I still won't see it as a free choice because men don't change their surnames in the same numbers.

Or your sentiments stand in the way of the point you so clearly wanted to make, more to the point.

There's nothing wrong with being a SAHM, if you can afford to do so, can protect yourself financially and are happy to take the career hit.

Unfortunately, a lot of SAHM are extremely naive about their financial security and, as a result, that of their children. To me that's just irresponsible. A couple of weeks ago there was a thread on here where a SAHM said basically that she trusted her DH completely and knew they'd be together until they were old. That's ridiculously naive. Nobody gets married and has dc with the idea they're going to be a struggling lone parent in the next few years.

Juxtapose that thread with threads in Lone Parents and Relationships, and you'll realise that women and children often pay a very heavy price when relationships breakdown. Many lose their home, many get no maintenance for years. There seems to be this 'head in the sand' attitude that 'it won't happen to me'.

You should do what you feel is right for you and your family. I completely agree that feminism is about having choices. But please go into it with your eyes wide open, for your children's sake.

but I still won't see it as a free choice because men don't change their surnames in the same numbers.

So men, in equal numbers, choosing something is what validates it, NoLove?

I haven't rtft so am weighing in cold here but isn't the point of feminism that you can choose? You don't HAVE to stay home and be a housewife you are free to make the choice to work if you want? That's my take on it anyway.

I chose to be a SAHM. OH earns more but he didn't mind either way. I gave up a successful, well paid career to be a mother. Entirely my choice and it's the right one for me. I don't expect to re-enter the workforce when my child/children are at school at the same level because I will be about 5/7 years out of date. It'd be unreasonable in any other circumstance to take that amount of time off and then hop back in to the same job.

I don't think I'm vulnerable or trapped. I own half the house, savings and cars, and if OH and I were to part then we'd sell it, split the savings, have a car each and I'd get a job and put DD in nursery until she started school. Obviously we don't plan for this to happen but I certainly don't consider myself to be at his mercy!

Also OP as others have said - bear in mind that your idea of being a SAHM is nice (and was mine too) but may be a little unrealistic. I had this vision of me floating around serenely with a newborn, breastfeeding easily with a spotless house and home cooked meals everyday. What followed was a traumatic birth, failure to BF, baby with dreadful silent reflux and me taking an awfully long time to adjust to being at home, my new identity and generally finding it tough going. DD is 16 months now and my days are a mostly a joy, but the first few months were bloody tough. The house is never spotless (ha!) and although we mostly do have nice home cooked meals now, for a while OH and I tagged teamed who would get to eat a hot dinner which was usually something hastily shoved in the oven while the other soothed the screeching infant!

Just try not to set your expectations too high to begin with!

I think the difficulty on Mumsnet is that posters, understandably, personalise this so much, so as with PP they feel they need to justify their individual choices to stay at home/change name etc. Whereas many posters are steoping away from being personal to conduct a larger analysis.

I would never judge anyone for the choices they make - how could I? I have been the queen of bad decisions myself. But I do think that saying 'feminism is about choice' is pointlessly glib and it is worthwhile to examine the context of choices. This does not mean criticism of anyone's individual choice, but sadly it reads like that and people get defensive and weigh in with their individual circumstances to an extent that means feminist analysis becomes impossible for fear of causing offence.

No, women being expected to change their surnames and it being nearly always women who do so is clearly sexist and grounded in patriarchy. Since you're now twisting what I'm saying to make a ridiculous suggestion of what I think as that I see no point discussing further.

Well quite.

The notion that the point of feminism is to give women the freedom to do what they like regardless of the impact on other women is ludicrous.

Or your sentiments stand in the way of the point you so clearly wanted to make, more to the point

Eh? I made a point, of which you chose to make a Strawman. It's a shame you don't feel confident enough to debate the actual point I made

NoLove,

No, women being expected to change their surnames and it being nearly always women who do so is clearly sexist and grounded in patriarchy.

My point is, if I as a woman, who considers herself a feminist, who fully acknowledges the patriarchy makes a choice for reasons which do not reference the patriarchy, that choice should be respected as my own.

It is just as oppressive to have every personal choice of mine be invalidated and disrespected, in terms of being feminist, because it, apparently, conforms to gender stereotypes or statistical norms for my sex, as it is to be actually oppressed by the patriarchy. One invalidates my choice, as a person, because I am seen as a woman damaged by oppression, the other invalidates my choice because it actively oppresses women.

Sorry first sentence was quoting NoLove. Bold fail, typo.

I think the difficulty on Mumsnet is that posters, understandably, personalise this so much, so as with PP they feel they need to justify their individual choices to stay at home/change name etc. Whereas many posters are steoping away from being personal to conduct a larger analysis

Quite. Frankly, the defensiveness of those in the former category on here right now is becoming almost stifling.

I think this is become a bit derailed and as I said in my previous post people get defensive and weigh in with their individual circumstances to an extent that feminist analysis becomes impossible for fear of causing offence.

Criticising the expectation that women change their name on marriage should not be taken as a personal slight on women who have done so. I have done so, but it wasn't a feminist choice, it was meekly going with the flow. I am still a feminist, but I can recognise when I have made choices that are a cop out & I can own that without being defensive.

Sorry I'm only half way through reading.

I love the idea of living like a 1950s housewife. But pretty much every women I know thinks that sounds like hell. So when I explain about our plan they make me feel less some how.

I tried to read a little about feminists but I only seem to find the really extreme stuff and I do not agree with.

Of course I agree with having the same rights as men but I thought there was a lot more to it than just that.

Thank you for all the replies. The financial side is quite scary to think about and everyone thinks they marry for life but I do worry about the 'what if'. That's the only think I'm scared of.

I'm lucky with my career as I can leave and come back in 10 years and it not be a problem. Although it is only full time (50hpw).

I do think woman should be the care giver and the man should be the protector and provider. I don't understand what's wrong with that?

Also if our baby is a girl she will be educated and she can be whatever she wants. I will be happy as long as she is.

I would just like to add my dad was a stay at home father and we loved it! He was amazing at it and much better as a parent than my mother was and still is!

... the defensiveness of those in the former category on here right now is becoming almost stifling.

And that very comment personalises this debate further. You have singled out people talking about their relevant, genuine lived experience as 'stifling'.

The OP asked for comments upon her personal preferences. More generalist analysis becomes meaningless without being able to reference personal experiences. This is needed for context. Generalist analysis only gives a sense of scale and number. If we weren't able to reference genuine lived experiences we can become guilty of minimising them and becoming less compassionate.