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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

What's wrong with being a SAHM?

461 replies

Roseandlily · 02/08/2017 08:48

I am not a feminist (I don't think). I currently earn more than my partner but when our baby is born I will be a stay at home mother. I love the idea of striving to be the best mother, home maker, having the tea on the table for when he gets home stuff. I love the idea of it all. But when I talk to people and they ask "oh what's your plan, how long to you plan to take off work?" And we both say I won't be going back and this will be me at home for say the next 10years give or take.

I would like to add that we would like to have 3 children so I will be at home until the last child starts school.

I don't care about amazing holidays we have done that :) or fancy cars, both had what we wanted and now have got sensible cheaper cars. We are married and have a lovely home.

What do feminists think is so wrong with this? And why do people make me feel weird about this?

OP posts:
NoLoveofMine · 02/08/2017 14:15

So why do men barely ever change their surnames upon marriage? Why are men's surnames theirs not their father's?

claritytobeclear · 02/08/2017 14:17

Because I was born with my father's surname. The buck has to stop somewhere. Why should women be the ones to change? Why shouldn't men?

Men can change their names. The important thing is choice. Changing my name was my choice. Keeping your name might be your choice. Both can be feminist choices.

SaintFrancis · 02/08/2017 14:17

'Anyway I barely know anyone whose mothers don't work, and all have excellent careers as well.'

But your experience is not the norm. The majority of people whose situation would be improved by the living wage are women.

NoLoveofMine · 02/08/2017 14:20

It's not a free choice (shown by how many more women than men do it) and is far simpler a process for women to change their surnames upon marriage. Women are also often pressured to do so and assumed to have even when they haven't, or questioned for not doing so. It's ridiculously sexist, as is the notion a woman's surname is her father's yet a man's is his as you believe.

WideHorizon · 02/08/2017 14:20

There are a lot of women (not all) who deep down would have liked to have stayed at home to care for their DCs full time.

For one reason or another, circumstances prevented them from doing so and they seek to justify the choices they made by extolling the virtues of WOH. Unfortunately this leads to the implied criticism of SAH to which you refer.

In this number are a few who could financially have afforded to SAH and originally wanted to, but it turned out that they weren't suited to SAHP so chose to go back to work. These are the worst offenders with the passive-aggressive comments I find.

I will say though, it is a very foolish woman who gives up work when unmarried and/or without a clear plan of what they would do if the worst were to happen to their marriage.

NoLoveofMine · 02/08/2017 14:20

I can't see where I'm arguing against the living wage but alright Hmm

SaintFrancis · 02/08/2017 14:20

'I have so much admiration for the women who fought to do so, for women's right to work and rights in the workplace and continue to fight sexism and women being held back in the workplace today.'

Well yes, but I also admire all the women who fought for other women to be able to stay at home and care for their own children. All those forced adoptions from unmarried mothers, shippings kids to Liverpool, taking poor women's children away, workhouses. Feminism fought that.

NoLoveofMine · 02/08/2017 14:22

Or WideHorizon maybe there are lots of mothers who want to work just like lots of fathers do Confused

SaintFrancis · 02/08/2017 14:23

I'm not saying you are noloveofmine. I'm just saying that having a great career is not the usual experience of a WOHM, and feminist campaigns bear that out.

I'm not meaning to be confrontational, or suggest you're saying things you aren't.

NoLoveofMine · 02/08/2017 14:24

Again I have no idea why you're posting that at me SaintFrancis. The post I was replying to was relevant to what I posted. Women have historically been expected to stay at home and still face significant barriers at work, not least as mothers.

NoLoveofMine · 02/08/2017 14:25

The girls at my school would enrage some of you with our un-ladylike desire for careers and ambitions.

PolarBearGoingSomewhere · 02/08/2017 14:26

I am a SAHM and a feminist, insofar as I believe men and women should be paid equally and have equivalent (not necessarily the same) rights and responsibilities in our society.

However, I recognise I am the product of my upbringing and have been socialised as female. That has always informed my choices and opinions and, inescapably, I am a woman. I was a nurse before children - a predominantly female profession, associated with providing care to vulnerable people. It is undervalued partly due to its role in society as "woman's work" IMO. Personally, I do not see why it would have played into a feminist ideology to continue in that environment versus SAH where I wanted to be. Obviously I would have earnt money to pay for childcare, but surely by SAH I have just cut out one step of that transaction?

However, it is very irritating to be told a man is "good" or "heroic" to do the things that women do day in, day out, often unpaid. It was the same in my working life; men were in my experience vastly overrepresented in the top jobs, partly because a male nurse was seen as something "special", memorable (although obviously repeated mat leaves etc for female staff may have played a part.) I do accept that by me taking on the majority of housework and childcare, with DH cast in the role of sidekick, we are perpetuating these norms. I don't know what the answer is.

SaintFrancis · 02/08/2017 14:26

Sorry, noloveofmine, this feels heated and I'm not sure why, so I'll leave it for now.

YetAnotherSpartacus · 02/08/2017 14:26

Men can change their names. The important thing is choice. Changing my name was my choice. Keeping your name might be your choice. Both can be feminist choices

No, the important thing is the social context. It is an accepted social norm that women do change their names and men don't. 'Choice' in this context is a loaded term.

claritytobeclear · 02/08/2017 14:29

It's not a free choice (shown by how many more women than men do it) and is far simpler a process for women to change their surnames upon marriage

NoLove, the only way to get a purely and proven free choice would be to somehow live in a societal vacuum. We're never going to get that and I wouldn't want one. My choice to change my name upon marriage, to all intense and purposes, was freely chosen. I have made choices which against some pressure from family and my social group (in particular to get a 'little', part time, perhaps evening, job - thanks MiL. For me apparently). So changing my name was as free as any other choice I made.

PolarBearGoingSomewhere · 02/08/2017 14:35

YetAnotherSpartacus indeed. I changed my name on marriage - yes it was my "choice" but it also felt like the default thing to do - unless you want to make a statement of your independence / feminist ideals or whatever, you change your name. Name changing felt like an opt out choice, if you like, rather than opt in. We all know the arguments to make organ donation opt out, namely, it results in higher numbers of people without strong views against it, to just go along with it. Fabulous if you're on the lookout for kidneys - not so great for smashing the patriarchy!

MiaowTheCat · 02/08/2017 14:37

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

claritytobeclear · 02/08/2017 14:39

It's ridiculously sexist, as is the notion a woman's surname is her father's yet a man's is his as you believe.

My comment was a reference to the source of the name. Not a sexist comment. The surname issue cannot be rectified, completely, ever, with the history we have, unless were to rename our ancestors also. In Canada, IIRC, women cannot automatically change to their husband's surname upon marriage. Which means any children do not have the same name as both parents. Which also can be problematic.

My conclusion? Not to someone's judge name choice as reflective of how feminist they are.

Mrskeats · 02/08/2017 14:39

I haven't rtft but it really grates on me when women with careers say they aren't feminists. Without the actions of brave women in the past we wouldn't be working would we? Read some history

NoLoveofMine · 02/08/2017 14:40

DH's was shorter, easier to spell and just more bloody convenient - so I took it on marriage

I'm sure many men could say the same about the surname of a woman they marry.

Fruitcocktail6 · 02/08/2017 14:40

I don't think there's anything wrong with it.

However I read the relationships board and there is a thread at least every other day from a woman who is stuck with an abusive or cheating husband because they have no financial independence.

Occasionally there are threads where the SAHM is scraping together small change to pay for a coffee while the husband earns 5k a month but refuses to share.

MN has massively opened my eyes as to why being a SAHM would be risky.

NoLoveofMine · 02/08/2017 14:41

My conclusion? Not to someone's judge name choice as reflective of how feminist they are.

Which absolutely no-one is doing Hmm

YetAnotherSpartacus · 02/08/2017 14:41

^ See, I didn't. Well, I'm not married, but I have by birth name. I've bucked the system in so many ways and I have actually felt the effects of not making the default choice. There is judging. Sometimes assumptions are made re me making the default choice. I get called Mrs Hislastname and I have to be careful in employment contexts not to mention his job or it will be assumed I am not really serious about mine.

St Francis - I (think) get where you are coming from. I'm the first in my family to have a career. Others had jobs and the key thing here was about survival, not personal fulfilment. The working class position is so often lost in feminist discourse.

MaisyPops · 02/08/2017 14:42

MN has massively opened my eyes as to why being a SAHM would be risky
Same. I still have my 'you choose' philosophy but am very much be aware of the risks first now.

notangelinajolie · 02/08/2017 14:42

Nope nothing wrong with being a SAHM. It's the best job in the world and for me as a feminist is absolutely about having the right to choose what I do with my life. It is without doubt the most important job I will ever do. It is wonderful, fulfilling, liberating, fun and gives me the greatest sense of being.

Career, money and the trappings that go with those do not interest me at all.
I have no interest in climbing career ladders and have never needed to reach for the stars. My DH and my kids are all I need.