Changing gender without any medical care/advice/opinion - just saying 'I'm a woman' and it being so

[Oscha]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40692782

I feel so naive right now-I didn't think this would really get to this point: So they actually want to make it possible to turn around and say, 'I am a man/woman' without any kind of doctor's confirmation of gender dysphoria?

What the fuck is this going to do to women's prisons? How many female criminals will end up abused, raped, killed by MEN in what should be safe places for them?! This is nothing to do with trans people-this is just going to be taken advantage of by predatory men.

. We can hope that there will be a huge backlash once the implications for women and children become clear, but it's more likely that there will simply be a slow shift of social mores, to a society where women and children are more unsafe and less involved in public life, and this becomes the new normal.

I've only got this far with the thread so apologies if someone's already said this but I think you're right and attitudes to women doing things like going to the gym at quiet times or using public toilets when it's not busy may start to be seen as on a par with walking home alone after dark. In that if we get attacked in that situation, we're often held responsible for being reckless about our safety.

I said a similar thing Magical (can't find who said bold bit originally sorry) but I hope the social and economic impact of women hiding away will make everyone realise how bad this is. It's just a worry of how long it'll take before the tide turns.

WeyHay, yes, and something that has only been granted very recently is always vulnerable to being taken away.

There'll be plenty of opportunities for capitalism. We'll all be buying big towels to get changed under at the no-longer-single-sex swimming pool changing rooms for instance.

I think I'm going to have to walk away from these threads as my boiling blood is going to spurt through the top of my head.

I'm aware of the issues but really poorly informed. I'm going to have a read of the previous government papers.

Just wondering a couple of things posters here might know. What input has there been from others such as WA or the government's Violence Against Women and Girls group?

Out of interest, in terms of the general public reaction... communal changing rooms at swimming has been the norm for some time I thought? Is that unusual? Ditto toilets, not completely unusual. And my local rape support organisation already supports and employs self-identified women.

Re prisons - where like many I see a huge issue - well, sadly prisoner welfare has never troubled the public.
I think Howard's League has probably spoken about concerns for transgender people where they have been vulnerable. Have they spoken about the flip side of women's vulnerability?

communal changing rooms at swimming has been the norm for some time I thought? Is that unusual? Ditto toilets, not completely unusual.

I wasn't aware of this. I know about toilets in some venues and universities but I've never been anywhere they're not segregated by sex nor would I want this to be normal.

'communal changing rooms at swimming has been the norm for some time I thought?'

What do you mean by communal? At the lovely new pool near my parents there is a gender neutral 'changing village', all cubicles with walls going right to the floor, so no problems there.
But my local pool has single sex changing rooms which are mostly open areas with only a handful of cubicles and even those have rather skimpy partitions (a head appeared under mine while I was changing recently! As it was a toddler I wasn't too bothered but it does mean you wouldn't feel comfortable there if it was mixed.)

The 38 degrees petition has been taken down, I never got to see it. "We reserve the right to remove any petition which we judge to promote illegal acts, hatred, violence, discrimination or stereotypes based on race, gender, ethnicity, sexuality, disability, nationality or religion

38 Degrees is independent of all political parties, and upholds values of freedom, democracy, peace, human rights, community, equality, fairness and sustainability. We reserve the right to remove any campaigns or comments that do not share these principles".

Our swimming pool has a communal changing village with lockable doors, suits families and friend groups mainly. Then there's a separate adult men and adult women changing area, with lockable doors.

Our local pool has a changing village and I hate it. You still have to be fully decent to get stuff in or out of your locker, not to mention having teenage boys goofing off loudly in the next cubicle. Personally I find them horrible but I guess I'm an old git.

Yes sorry. Not communal. Cubicles.

Not everywhere has cubicles.
Gyms and hotels especially don't, in my recent experience.

I don't like it either. Find showering weird.

I feel really let down by Ruth Hunt (of Stonewall) by this - I knew her a bit years ago, and I can't believe this is the same person who has caved into the transagenda.

FWIW I've completed the survey and identified as a lesbian. I really let rip on the comments section, for all the good it'll do...

I've also written to my MP today.

I am as livid as the rest of you.

As someone who has been wanked at as well as being rounded on by a group of 8 or so men and verbally abused (sexual language) on tube carriages at night, I wasn't quite as opposed to Corbyn's suggestion of women-only night carriages as others who called it "barmy". Now he's happy for men to self-identify as women and have access to the most vulnerable of safe spaces... that really is fucking barmy.

There is an alternative petition here
www.change.org/p/theresa-may-mp-a-review-of-how-laws-based-on-gender-identity-conflict-with-laws-based-on-biological-sex?

WHAT happened to the 38 Degree petition? I signed, but have also seen the notice that it's been withdrawn because of content? What comments were left which could have caused this?

Or were 38 Degrees pressured about the nature of the petition itself?

There's a new 38 degrees petition. Get in quick before this one is also taken down.

And yes, they took it down because of the petition itself. On this thread or the AIBU one somebody has pasted the explanation in.

'this had shifted a wee bit...'
Thought you were talking about the reassignment surgery for a moment there.

It's very graphic but on the basis that a picture is worth a thousand words it might help if more people knew what's involved in gender reassignment surgery (for both men and women) and saw the effects on previously healthy young women of binding their breasts. How the medical and psychology professions aren't up in arms about this absolutely beats me. How can it be ethical to be pushing people, who in most cases are clearly very troubled, down a surgical route instead of getting them some sort of therapy? I'm not one for conspiracy theories but Big Pharma has a very obvious interest here.

If labour are supportive of this they can change their slogan to 'for the few, not the many'

I'm also very scared, having teenage daughters, what this means for their future. However, BBC programmes showing sad children transitioning have got to my eldest and she rolls her eyes at any of my criticisms.

Could you try asking her to define what a woman is notafish? Or ask what she thinks about anyone who merely decides they're "defining as a woman" having access to women's refuges or rape crisis centres? I empathise with the frustration as I experience similar with some friends.

www.theguardian.com/society/2017/jul/25/secret-transgender-victorian-surgeon-feted-by-heritage-england

Apparently a woman who was forced to claim to be a man as women weren't allowed to practice is now "trans"