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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Jeremy Corbyn speaks about trans rights

165 replies

MacaroonMama · 19/07/2017 10:45

Haven't posted on this board before but I do read it often - sorry if I get the link wrong.

www.theguardian.com/society/2017/jul/19/let-trans-people-self-identify-gender-corbyn-urges-may

So do we need to remind Jeremy Corbyn that while supporting all minorities is important, it should NOT be bought at the price of women's rights being eroded and women's funding being cut and women's spaces being invaded?

A while back, I wrote to my MP about that private members' bill changing 'sex' to 'gender' as a protected characteristic, but he didn't reply (third time! useless!) - what is happening with that?

I am going to write again to my MP and maybe Corbyn too.

What do people think? I don't dislike Corbyn at all, And I honestly do wonder if it is a bit of trans rights being much more fashionable than women's rights!

(Please note I do not want to offend anyone, I just am worried about the rights of women and girls in our society today.)

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SpaghettiAndMeatballs · 19/07/2017 12:44

www.tatler.com/news/articles/august-2016/trans-toffs

Until 2004, transgender people were not formally recognised 
by English law in their acquired sex. Then came the Gender Recognition Act (GRA) 2004, which allows them to be fully recognised in their new gender by the law, provided they meet certain criteria. But the lawyers who thrashed out the act must have debated the issue of trans toffs, because they made one exception. Section 16 states: 'The fact that a person's gender has become the acquired gender under this Act (a) does not affect the descent of any peerage or dignity or title of honour, and (b) does not affect the devolution of any property.' So, as the law stands, the marquess's transgender brother would not get the dukedom.

Original poster
MacaroonMama · 19/07/2017 12:46

I am INCANDESCANT with rage at that.

OP posts:
Original poster
MacaroonMama · 19/07/2017 12:46

So incandescEnt I spelt it wrong. Oops sorry.

OP posts:
Collidascope · 19/07/2017 12:48

Thanks, Spaghetti. So men benefitting under a sexist law won't be thrown under that bus then. How heartening.

Walkingtowork · 19/07/2017 12:50

So many people can't see the problem with this. It must be that they don't believe women are oppressed due to being biological women, hence the need to keep a word to define us.

What seems to clear to us, it just not widely believed. No idea how that can be challenged.

Is it a - they don't believe women are oppressed?
b - they think TW will are oppressed in exactly the same ways as biological women?
c - they believe women and TW are oppressed for some other reason than biology?

IndominusRex · 19/07/2017 13:20

Walking - I know so many women who buy into this - and many are very focussed on their kids, super into sharing birth stories, breast feeding promotion etc but apparently have a total blind spot about the fact that womens oppression is entirely based on reproductive biology.

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 19/07/2017 13:21

He will attach himself to any bandwagon at the moment

Corbyn is a self-important idiot. He has behaved appallingly since the election (which in case he didn't notice Labour lost) His hanging out and being cool at Glastonbury was deeply embarrassing.

May, I suspect might understand the need for single sex facilities but will be name called and bullied if she does not go along with this.

sticklebrix · 19/07/2017 13:23

Justanother the single sex train carriages are a different issue (and MTT would be allowed to access them under self ID). But it shows how muddled Corbyn's thinking is.

Walkingtowork · 19/07/2017 13:25

Indominus perhaps it's liked to the 'ick' factor around women's bodies. I have 3 teenage nieces and you should see their reaction if I mention the word periods or god forbid vagina.

I was also horrified at their misconceptions about feminism. I really don't believe much progress is happening, if any.

stilllooksixmonthspregnant · 19/07/2017 13:28

Also furious about this, but not surprised. Fuck him.

sticklebrix · 19/07/2017 13:29

Lass I'm not May's biggest fan but agree that she probably understands the need for sex segregation where women need them. Defending that need is probably way down her list of priorities ATM and she'll get slaughtered if she tries.

Walkingtowork · 19/07/2017 13:30

Actually I reckon if you asked the average person on the street, they probably wouldn't agree that women are still oppressed Sad

And that's the whole logic of our trans argument out the window.

KarlosKKrinkelbeim · 19/07/2017 13:33

Is anyone surprised by this? There are so many reasons why corbyn will get this wrong. First, he's an idiot who gets everything wrong. Second, he has no respect for women or the feminist agenda except insofar as it provides him with a stick to beat tories with. He sides with Islamic fundamentalist for gods sake, he thinks feminism is namby pamby middle class BS. Third he is frantically running after the youth vote as he has realised the young people of this country may be stupid enough to make him PM. And if they do, I'm leaving and they can have their socialist utopia- but who will pay their tuition fees if everyone like me ups and leaves, poor darlings

BeyondDrinksAndKnowsThings · 19/07/2017 13:35

So hang on... a man can inherit a title that his sister can't, yet still be able to be protected under the laws that protect women, just cause he says so?!

Lord bob of bobsville, taking up a positive discrimination place in place of a woman?! Shock

I did not know this.

SylviaPoe · 19/07/2017 13:36

I am both surprised and upset.

I'm a Labour Party member and would like to write to them about it. Are there any template letters about self identification?

Datun · 19/07/2017 13:40

Walkingtowork

Of your reasons, I think the first one is the most prevalent. Although it's a mixture of all three, generally.

Many people will genuinely flinch at the words patriarchy and female oppression, but then go on to agree with male chauvinism, and now you're talking!

For me there are two sides to this. The ideology is intrinsically sexist. I like women stuff, therefore I must be a woman.

But the second part of it is that autogynephiles now seem to outnumber genuine transsexuals ten to one.

Anyone who agrees with the ideology, has clearly spent no time online. The rape threats, threats of violence and abuse are endemic.

People who don't give a shit about women and don't understand the oppression of them, might just be able to get their head around the ideology, but there is no excuse for not understanding how that has been hijacked by a very violent and misogynistic cohort who will exploited it as much as they can.

And that cohort are wholly representative.

Datun · 19/07/2017 13:45

And yes the illegality of a woman identifying as a man, inheriting the title and taking her seat in the House of Lords is one of the things that peaked me all over again.

The feminist viewpoint of patriarchy been a means of establishing a bloodline and passing property down from father to son is alive and well in the trans ideology. Because men will always be men. Even when they're women.

Ktown · 19/07/2017 13:49

Someone explain what gender means please?
I am not interested in opinion just facts so for me there are males females and intersex. What happened to biological sex?
I would also like Jeremy's to answer the following: a male, who identifies as a woman rapes a woman and goes to prison. Which prison?
A male runner who identifies as a woman wants to play sport. In which sex team?

AssignedMentalAtBirth · 19/07/2017 13:50

Because men will always be men. Even when they're women.

Bows to Datun.

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 19/07/2017 13:51

Excellent summing up of Corbyn Karlos

Here's the lead singer of poster NoLove's favourite band endorsing him.

www.google.co.uk/amp/amp.timeinc.net/nme/news/music/wolf-alice-play-tories-out-march-2097269%3fsource=dam

( sorry NoLove, but I've rolled my eyes several times at stuff Ellie Rowsell has come out with about Corbyn)

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 19/07/2017 13:53

I am both surprised and upset

I was, probably still am, a member of the Labour Party. I am not in the least bit surprised.

SylviaPoe · 19/07/2017 13:57

Politicians must now. Someone in these political parties must have read the evidence submitted by psychologists, prisoner charities and prison staff. They must be aware of the intent of the men in question and the danger it puts women in.

They know and they don't care. What other explanation can there be?

Elendon · 19/07/2017 13:57

Great hijack of the thread to attack socialism, as if it was the preserve of men only, even men who transition to be women.

Capitalism is based on the premise of gender differences and gender stereotypes.

AssignedMentalAtBirth · 19/07/2017 13:59

This is an interesting article on left wing misogyny

medium.com/@zacharygeorgenajariannajafi/misogyny-is-revisionism-part-1-on-the-lefts-woman-problem-22984b49675b