Want to talk

[UpForDiscussi0n]

Full transparacy, I am not a mother nor a woman. English is not my first language so exuse any misshap. I only made this account to be able to talk to a feminist first-hand to be able to see their view-points. I am myself not a feminist as i don't belive that the feminism in today's society promotes equality on some levels. I have also read several news outlets such as bussfeed and the huffington post but find them to be (as i said, bad english so don't really know how to put it) downlooking towards myself as a man. Would love to hear people out and debate or discuss feministic issues, have a good day.

I see you failed to answer my questions.

What have YOU done to stop catcalling and harassment? What have YOU done to look up stats on the wage gap? What have YOU done to get your swollen balls checked out?

Why on earth should we do all the work for you when google is at your fingertips? Once again, this will help

Dervel: If i upset you I apologise. But as I stated in the beginning i wanted to hear about feministic issues and ask questions. My question was that i didn't feel that men's suicides was a feministic issue and wanted responses from feminists to either confirm my thoughts, or to take them down.

Oh ffs, OP, if you're that interested in feminism find a feminist reading list online and educate yourself. Your ignorance is not something to be proud of and hold up as an actual opinion ('not a feminist').

I'm sick of this expectation that ignorant arseholes who are opposed to me being treated like a full citizen want to have a pleasant chat in which I am expected to provide justification for being an actual human being.

Your thread title says it all. You want to talk. But you don't want to listen or understand.

If you are genuine then why don't you spend some time reading through the threads here in order to educate yourself?

Or is it more important to get attention from women?

For us, feminism isn't a hobby or a fun theoretical concept, it is the assertion - which goes against the cultural tide - that we are fully-formed equal human beings. What's to debate?

Oh!! I see you are only a baby. I'll re-phrase that:

What have YOU done to stop catcalling and harassment? What have YOU done to look up stats on the wage gap? What have YOU done to get your swollen balls checked out? What have YOU done to read up on the reality of life for your female classmates.

Since you are so young, I'll give you a reading list:

Dale Spender "The Schooling Scandal"
Dale Spender "Women of Ideas and what Men have done to them"
Cordelia Fine "Delusions of Gender"
Cordelia Fine "Testosterone Rex"
Kat Banyard "The Equality Illusion"
Laura Bates "Girl Up" (you may find this one a bit less intellectually challenging than the others)

Read them, digest what is being said, work on your spelling and grammar, then come back and learn to listen before you try to mansplain feminism to women with way more education and experience than you.

UpFor the situation in Sweden, UK and US is very different, this is what might be causing you to wonder why feminism is necessary.

You believe that your dad was an equal parent. But read that in case of divorce, he would not have had a chance to 'keep' you. Of course that sounds unfair. As you admit, this is US statistics, where most men are not parenting equally.
In Sweden, more men are parenting equally, and the outcome is that they will also keep their parenting rights and will have children living with them after divorce. Voila! Feminism.

OP I imagine that you're patting yourself on the back because you're engaging with us and you're being super open-minded about letting us speak. But really what feminist hasn't heard this 'educate me' nonsense? Yawn.

I'll let you in on a little secret on child custody, as I'm a man with shared care of my child. The courts (at least in the uk), base their approach on the best interests of the child. If more men want to be taken seriously the magic formula to make that happen is be an active and involved father BEFORE the relationship breaks down.

In other words don't delegate all the labour of child raising to women, and then expect the courts to swoop in and award you with a 'fair' 50/50 or sole custody. To even make that point without understanding the parenting demographics positively drips of male entitlement (which is another neat little demonstration of why feminism exists). Don't be that guy.

Women organise to fix problems that we face as a group. That is feminism in a nutshell.

There is a pay gap between men and women that is nothing to do with maternity leave. For example;
12% pay gap in UK universities, and fewer female professors
www.independent.co.uk/news/education/education-news/gender-pay-gap-universities-uk-not-close-female-professorships-rate-sex-male-a7757441.html

Women live with a high risk of violence and sexual abuse from men. Its why we organise and fund Rape Crisis and domestic violence shelters. We have also supported men in starting their own rape crisis and DV services.

Violence against women and children is on the increase.
www.theguardian.com/society/2016/jan/13/hidden-rise-violent-crime-growth-violence-against-women

Domestic violence costs the UK an estimated £15 billion a year
www.refuge.org.uk/get-help-now/what-is-domestic-violence/domestic-violence-the-facts/

These are the kinds of things we are concerned about and want to change.

If i instead of thinking why there's a need for women's day, instead believe both day's are needed, is that a feminist belief? Or is that egalitarian?

I notice you have failed to answer any of my questions. It is not a feminist belief, no.

Thinking you need both a women's and men's days shows you have failed to understand all the reasons explained to you about why we need feminism and a woman's day. I ask again, why do you think there's a need for a woman's day? Why do you think there would there be a need for a man's day and can you think of any reason why there's not one?

Okay, since you people seem to think a fucking kid asking questions is the same thing as satan coming to kill your kids, also apparently i'm a fucking dumbass even though i have been nothing but polite i'm going to ask 3 questions and then stop responding since almost EVERYONE HERE apparently hate me: "Oh ffs, OP" "Your ignorance is not something to be proud of" "So I say shame on you sir" "Oh come OFF it""I very much doubt that I can, because you'd have to start from a place of sincere interest" "reason I'm not taking up the issue of high male suicides rates is that I don't really give a shit about it" "Why is the job of feminists to fix male problems?" "Hi random dude who wants women to do all the hard work"

Before the questions: Thank you to DJBaggySmalls, KatharinaRosalie, Collidascope, ChiefClerkDrumknott, Lottapianos for not being a rude prick do a random guy online that only wants to ask questions.

Question 1
Do you believe both men and women face difficulties that are important to take up and fight against?

Question 2
Would the majority of you be as rude to me as you have been here if i was standing infront of you asking you the same question?

Question 3 Since several of you asked me how i have helped people or intervened. How have you people helped women in third-world countries where women get their genetalia mutilated, burned simply because they became a widow, or killed because they were lesbian?

After all this i wish you all to have a pleasant day even though most of you seem to be disgusted by me. Tahtah

1. Yes, but men wont fix problems for us; men cant even see most of them. We have to organise ourselves. We dont have the resources to do that and fix mens problems as well. Each group has problems and an outlook that is specific to that group. So white people cant wade in and fix the problems Black people face; we cant see many of them. But we can be good allies. Look at healthcare in the USA. Women are losing healthcare rights. Men are voting in favour or turning a blind eye. When asked by a feminist blogger to highlight a vote recently, male bloggers replied 'its not our brand'. Men just dont see womens problems as being relevant to them.

But men dont seem to want to do things for themselves. For example, Rape Crisis UK has helped men start male Rape Crisis services and each time they close for lack of funding and support from men.
That has to change. Mens rights and activist groups need to study and tackle the problems men face instead of just blaming feminists or women.

It's gotta make you wonder why a bunch of strangers are taking to you so badly.

No need to throw your toys out of the pram because you haven't got the answers you wanted. We are asking that you think critically and answer our questions, which you have failed to do.

Of course men and women face problems, but on the whole men do not face the same ones as women. The majority, if not all, of the problems women face is simply down to their biological sex. This is why feminists are for females and not males. How many men do you think really give a shite about women's problems, let alone do anything to fix them? So I ask again, why is it the job of feminists to fix male problems?

Oh no that ended in a way that was not at all predictable.

Don't thank me OP. I'm not on your side here. You haven't listened to a single thing anyone has said. We get a lot of that from men, and we're tired of it, so its a shame if you don't feel you've been adequately indulged but there we are

What a shock, someone who is not only 'not a feminist' but entirely ignorant of the issues is offended that they didn't get a big ol' round of applause for asking for an instant education. 'You know, just give it to me in a nutshell.'

He even asked you all his questions. You are all feminazis.

People wear clothing to protect them from non-pleasant temperatures. If you choose not to wear any clothes on a cold winter's day you could die from it, therefore making clothing a need to survive.

Well if you think about this for half a second you would realise this isn't true. It's 30 degrees here and cloudy. Clothes are not necessary today - and yet, no-one is walking around naked.

It's not like you can find information about this stuff elsewhere either.

For someone who so badly wants educating he didn't last long.

The level of entitlement would actually be hilarious if we weren't all so sick and tired of it

Yy, if you were all nicer and explained what was wrong in a calm, rational way, he could have solved everything. This will be recorded in history as a great missed opportunity.

Question 1
Do you believe both men and women face difficulties that are important to take up and fight against?

Yes - but I don't think it is a woman's job to lead the charge on all of it. I also believe strong that a more equal society that does away with stereotypes will benefit both men and women.

Question 2
Would the majority of you be as rude to me as you have been here if i was standing infront of you asking you the same question?

I haven't been rude to you but you have been incredibly passive aggressive so please don't try to claim you have been nothing but sweetness and light.

Question 3 Since several of you asked me how i have helped people or intervened. How have you people helped women in third-world countries where women get their genetalia mutilated, burned simply because they became a widow, or killed because they were lesbian?

I went to live in a war torn part of Africa for three years working on a project to support women in conflict. You?

Just FYI, International Men's Day is the 19th of November.