Want to talk

[UpForDiscussi0n]

Full transparacy, I am not a mother nor a woman. English is not my first language so exuse any misshap. I only made this account to be able to talk to a feminist first-hand to be able to see their view-points. I am myself not a feminist as i don't belive that the feminism in today's society promotes equality on some levels. I have also read several news outlets such as bussfeed and the huffington post but find them to be (as i said, bad english so don't really know how to put it) downlooking towards myself as a man. Would love to hear people out and debate or discuss feministic issues, have a good day.

feminists wants the parents to split the time with a baby 50/50. I feel this should be a choise rather than a command and that parents that choose not to do so shouldn't be condemmed for it.

How free a choice do you think it is, though? Because unless both parents earn the same amount and have rights to the same parental leave and pay, it's not really a totally free choice, but usually driven by economic necessity, which feeds into all the questions about equal pay and so on.

When the York university decided not to have a men's day

Perhaps think about why there's a need to have a day specifically for women, rather than think about why there's not one for men

I have also talked down a male friend from suicide several times.

That's commendable and you're a good friend. Have you thought about volunteering to help on a suicide line? Or looked in to supporting men's refuges?

PoochSmooch: Can you explain to me in some concrete ways how women are being oppressed?

I very much doubt that I can, because you'd have to start from a place of sincere interest, and I don't really think you're quite there, are you?

Also, I did not use the word oppressed - I said we lived in a sexist society. I rather think you've put some words in my mouth there, you little scamp, eh? A cynical person would take that as being almost like you're not really interested in a debate when you've already supplied the answers you think you're going to get...

OP- have you thought about the questions women are asking in th video you linked to?

OP, the CV study is cited in a book called The Equality Illusion by Kat Barnyard iirc.

A cynical person would take that as being almost like you're not really interested in a debate when you've already supplied the answers you think you're going to get..

It has crossed my mind But just on the off chance someone really does want to learn, I've bitten

I can't get past the post saying that you disagree with the asserting that child rearing should be split 50/50 because this should be a 'choice'.

What if BOTH parents decided that they don't wish to take on 50% of the work? You see that isn't an option. And yet men think they can make this choice and they do. Women end up picking up the slack whether they want to or not because someone had to look after the kid. How can you not see that this isn't ok?

Where in the world is that country where a woman will be hired over a man with an equal CV? You wanted links of the opposite?

• Exactly the same CV, man more likely to be hired, gets higher salary:

gender.stanford.edu/news/2014/why-does-john-get-stem-job-rather-jennifer

• when orchestra auditions are blind, suddenly the probability that a woman would advance from preliminary rounds rose by 50 percent. The likelihood of a woman’s ultimate selection is increased several fold

www.princeton.edu/news/2000/11/28/blind-orchestra-auditions-better-women-study-finds

Just first 2 examples I could think of

No! We're not suggesting that the OP isn't entirely sincere, are we?? Stop it. You're all so mean. He's just trying to learn.

(I'm trying on wide eyed innocence while goading - how does it look on me? As good as it looks on the OP? )

Bertrand Russel:

Question 1: I don't feel anything special.

Question 2: It's a movietype i find boring.

Question 3: Longest i've talked with people about boobs is maybe 5min. I prefer talking about things that interest me such as videogames, computer stuff or school.

Question 4: I don't.

Question 5: I'm not surpriced if a woman is funny, if it makes me laugh i like it.

Question 6: I don't.

Question 7: Sleep with whoever or how many you like, I don't care. Also never heard a man getting congradulated for it.

Question 8: I don't.

Question 9: No means no, don't understand how that can't be asked by a man to a woman.

Question 10: Never called a woman too emotional and never catcalled.

Question 11: You don't.

Question 12: I haven't.

Question 13: Haven't done that, if someone's an asshole to my family i'll tell them to stop, easy as that.

Question 14: Never done that.

Question 15: I sit with my legs open because it hurts my ballsack if i have my legs closed. Maybe i got big balls or something i don't know. It just hurts. Also, my balls are inbetween my legs, your breasts are infront of your arms.

Question 16: Genetically speaking, women have less muscle. A woman who trains regularly and hard will of course be stronger than a man who don't train regularly and hard, but if you take two similair people who don't train, the man will often times be stronger. Birthing a child does not have anything to do with physical strength. You don't lift a table with your vagina.

Question 17: It's not bad to show your emotions, although it's not always nececcary to do so.

Question 18: Not always trying to prove my masculinity.

Question 19: It's not lady-like to cuss. It's also not gentlemen-like to cuss. It has nothing to do with sex, it's just rude. Saying that however, I don't give a shit if you cuss, maybe just not at inapropriate times?

Question 20: I doubt anyone, not just women, who say they have been sexually violated because the rule is, innocent untill proven otherwise.

Question 21: I don't, although living with an older sister she is often times angry during her period.

Question 22: If a person is wearing make-up, they are in fact, masking how they truly look.

Question 23: It's not wierd because they would have to have studied and worked hard to get those positions which means they know what they are talking about.

Question 24: What is a gucci?

Question 25: Because women are hot. More women are hotter.

Question 26: Getting kicked in the balls makes it hard to breath for up to a minute depending if the kick was hard or not. It's horrible.

Question 27: It's easy being manly all the time because I am a man.

Question 28: I am not afraid of gender equality, I am afraid of gender inequality. such as the fact that 9/10 times, a woman will get to keep the kid after a divorce.

Question 29: You don't deserve to be paid less than me if you are doing the exact same job that i'm doing.

Question 30. The wage gap simply shows the total earnings of women and men, not taking into account different jobs, work hours and possitions in jobs.

Question 31: Not intimidated by a woman making more money than me. Obviously she studied to get a high-paying job. Good for her.

Question 32: A) I don't see opinionated women as bitches and B) don't see opinionated men as bosses.

Question 33: Because it is a joke. A joke is meant to make you laugh, not to discriminate against people. Has anyone of you people on this site ever heard a joke against a group of people and not instantly took it down? If someone makes a funny joke about men it's still funny.

Question 34: All first-world people have privilage.

Question 35:

Well, that was a comprehensive answer for you, bertrand

Deckoff: I started this thread because rather than just reading I would like to be able to ask questions and hear from personal experiences why feminism is needed.

PoochSmooch: I am sincere and I apologise if i put words in your mouth. If you don't believe i'm sincere then why keep reading the thread?

KatharinaRosalie: I live in Sweden and am studying to become an electrician (On a side-note, working with electronics is real fun actually ). Since there aren't many women studying to become electricians many companies such as MSI El, Borensberg elektronik and others have said that women are encouraged to study towards electricians because there is a big need and they will easily find jobs at their companies. Also Thank for being informative

user1477249785: Is it a possibility to hire someone to look after the kid? Also if money is needed in the family home and the man happens to earn more, would it not be good for the person that earns most to keep earning while the other person look after the kid?

Collidascope: Thank you for the information

Have a good day.

PoochSmooch: Out of curiosity, what would it take from me to prove to you that i'm genuinly interested in this and that i'm not lying?

fact that 9/10 times, a woman will get to keep the kid after a divorce. Custody is generally awarded to the main care giver....

Never called a woman too emotional and never catcalled. Have you ever seen it happening? Do you know men who do this? Have you EVER called them out on their behaviour? If not, you are part of the problem.

You don't deserve to be paid less than me if you are doing the exact same job that I'm doing Ha ha ha ha... try working in IT. Question for you. If you find out a woman is being paid less for doing the same job as you, do you offer to take a pay cut so you are equal? If not, why not?

If a person is wearing make-up, they are in fact, masking how they truly look. This one is quite breathtaking in it's ignorance. Let's rephrase it shall we? "If a man is wearing clothing, they are in fact, masking how they truly look." You see? The implication is women are there to be decorative but men aren't. We are supposed to be decorative, but not obviously so. We are also still expected to be groomed and presentable, less we scare the men horses.

The wage gap simply shows the total earnings of women and men, not taking into account different jobs, work hours and positions in jobs. Ha Ha Ha Ha!!!!! Again. Try working in IT, or finance, or just about anything in fact.

I sit with my legs open because it hurts my ballsack if i have my legs closed. I checked this one with my husband. His advice to you is to see a doctor.

ChiefClerkDrumknott: If i instead of thinking why there's a need for women's day, instead believe both day's are needed, is that a feminist belief? Or is that egalitarian?

How old are you, OP?

user1477249785: Is it a possibility to hire someone to look after the kid? Also if money is needed in the family home and the man happens to earn more, would it not be good for the person that earns most to keep earning while the other person look after the kid?

Sure - you can hire someone to look after your kid. YOu can't hire someone to do the all the thinking and organization that surrounds having children - the mental burden if you will. Someone has to think about whether they need new shoes, if their clothes fit, whether they have taken into school the cardboard boxes and loo rolls needed for this week's project, what they are going to wear on world book day, who will attend the class play. And the reality is that 9/10 of ten, this is women, even if both parents work and earn equally. Men think they should have a choice in whether they wish to take on this mental load. Women know it has to happen and most of the time, that means they have to do it. So I don't much care for men who wish to choose whether they parent 50/50 or not. It isn't just about who is home when the kids get home. It's about who takes on all the surrounding the work that makes them feel loved and cared for and you can't delegate that to a nanny.

Slug:

Never called a woman too emotional and never catcalled.
I have seen both men and women get called too emotional or not emotional enough. My belief is that sticks and stones may break my bones, but words will never hurt me.

If a person is wearing make-up, they are in fact, masking how they truly look.
People wear clothing to protect them from non-pleasant temperatures. If you choose not to wear any clothes on a cold winter's day you could die from it, therefore making clothing a need to survive.

You don't deserve to be paid less than me if you are doing the exact same job that I'm doing
Could you provide me with statistics or numbers to strengthen your case? Otherwise I can only base this answer on what you believe.

Have a good day.

TinyRick: I turned 17 a few months back.

such as the fact that 9/10 times, a woman will get to keep the kid after a divorce. - what do you mean by 'keep'? Most children in Sweden will remain in the joint custody of both parents after divorce/separation and about 50% of kids whose parents have separated over the past few years will also live approximately equally with each parent.
www.scb.se/sv_/Hitta-statistik/Artiklar/Fler-barn-bor-vaxelvis-hos-mamma-och-pappa/

user1477249785: Okay, is this a situation you have found yourself in?
My personal experience (from my parents of course) has been that dad always took care of me and my sister's practice (like gymnastics or football or whatever), took care of issues that came up if we were going on vacation (like flights or places to stay and so on) and that he and mum often shared the school stuff.

Look it's not rocket science, women are victims of sexual violence overwhelmingly more than men. Two to three women a week are murdered by a man known to them, and wealth and political power is concentrated at the top end of society of which men are are over represented and women are underrepresented by quite a large margin.

None of that is contentious it's just simply factual. If any of the above doesn't bother you I'd ask you to really examine your own attitudes towards women, by all means care about male suicides too or even the dire plight of sweet baby pandas. Neither of those two erase the facts I laid about above.

Men will continue to kill themselves at the same time as women are raped and murdered. I would understand your position if every time a man killed himself it magically unraped a woman or unmurdered another, but it doesn't so even bringing it up is actually irrelevant to the topic at hand.

What's worse is you are even expending mental energy which in no way is going to ever actually help male suicide victims. By even bringing it up in a discussion about feminism I am inclined to say how very dare you? It is obviously an important issue that deserves its own discussion, examination and analysis, yet you want to bring it up in as some sort of competing issue to shut down discussion on the big three issues I outlined at the beginning. If every time a discussion on a social issue comes up, but we end up talking about EVERY other social issue nothing gets resolved or examined in the detail it deserves. So I say shame on you sir, shame for derailing discussion on women's issues and shame for not really caring enough about male suicide enough to start a bespoke and seperate debate and analysis on it.

KatharinaRosalie :
such as the fact that 9/10 times, a woman will get to keep the kid after a divorce
I based this statistic on studies in america. I am however not able to show statistics so I apologice for the statement and retract it untill i can find facts that supports my claim.

There are basically 2 types of feminism;
Liberal feminism - seeks equality for women by asking for changes in the law.
Radical feminism - Radical means 'root'. Radical feminists seek to change society to remove the obstacles to women.

The difference in thinking is shown neatly by this illustration;
Panel 1 shows the patriarchal system, which has inequalities designed in.
Panel 2 shows the liberal answer.
Panel 3 shows the answer designed from a radical perspective. change the system and you give people equality in a more natural way.