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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Ched Evans explains to women how to not get raped

143 replies

Collidascope · 18/05/2017 09:54

www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/ched-evans-warns-women-getting-13052701

We just need to not get drunk apparently, as genuine rapists will prey on us if we're hammered. Well, that's a relief. I thought there might be a bit more to it than that, but it seems not.

OP posts:
Xenophile · 18/05/2017 14:58

The point, USER, is that women CAN'T protect themselves from rape. The best that women can do is to hope that the rapist chooses someone else to victimise. Telling women to change their behaviour to stave off rapists is pretty much exactly the same as telling someone to keep their fingers crossed bring good luck or to wear "lucky pants" to help their team to score more goals.

Women who are blind drunk don't always get raped, women who stay stone cold sober don't always escape rape. The majority of women who are raped are in day to day clothes or their pyjamas and sober, so, statistically, you're probably better off pissed and in a short skirt. If a rapist chooses to rape you, your blood alcohol level has little bearing on it. What does change is the police's attitude to you if you report the rape, because the police are human and buy into rape myths too.

This in no way suggests that women shouldn't do whatever magical thinking type behaviour helps her to believe protects her from the boogieman.

DJBaggySmalls · 18/05/2017 15:02

Joe Biden says drunk consent isnt consent. Its rape if the women is drunk

www.newsweek.com/joe-biden-rape-sexual-assault-students-consent-591263

NoLoveofMine · 18/05/2017 15:17

i don't think its nonsense to say we should take steps to protect ourselves

You have ignored every question posed to you. How can women "take steps to protect ourselves"? Seeing as women and girls of all ages are raped, at all hours of the day, by boys and men known and unknown to us. It is happening constantly. So, if you think women and girls should "protect ourselves" (by which you mean ''make sure another woman gets raped instead'), should we stay indoors permanently and never live with any male?

CuddleAttack · 18/05/2017 15:22

I was lost for words. Then ethan used the right word. Scum. Just scum.

Ceto · 18/05/2017 15:28

I can't bear to read it, but does he show any contrition for the way he behaved that night? Even on his version of events his behaviour was appalling.

user1495096175 · 18/05/2017 15:30

I don't reject your claims that rape happens in all manner of ways committed by all manner of people. I'm just saying being drunk on a night out makes you more vulnerable, i'm not sure why accepting that as a premise is victim blaming, its just common sense.

Just like a lion picks off a limping antelope in the Serengeti, a rapist may be more likely to target the drunk girl who will pose less risk to him.

I'm all for dispelling rape myths. I just think shouting that we should be allowed to be safe or pretending there is no way to take steps to protect ourselves is unnecessary. I support your right to hold these opinions though, i just disagree on a fundamental level is all.

cadnowyllt · 18/05/2017 15:31

Joe Biden says drunk consent isnt consent. Its rape if the women is drunk

He says dead drunk - which is the same as the legal position in the UK (well Wales & England at least)

DeleteOrDecay · 18/05/2017 15:39

But even when women do take steps to protect themselves, they can still be raped. What then?

Do the victims who try to 'protect' themselves get more sympathy for what they've been through over those who don't appear to be 'protecting' themselves?

At what point do we accept that rapist must take full responsibility for their actions?

BandeauSally · 18/05/2017 15:40

Ok user can you define which clothes are provocative so we can avoid wearing them? This will eliminate rape, yes? I'm all for that.

Goingtobeawesome · 18/05/2017 15:42

Patronising twat. That poor woman. She was raped. He is a rapist. His girlfriend is an idiot.

user1495096175 · 18/05/2017 15:46

there's no point in just twisting what i'm saying.

i believe it is always the rapists fault. is that clear enough?

I also believe that specifically in the case of stranger rape, as my rape was, the fact i was so drunk made me a target.

These aren't mutually exclusive views. I don't ride a bike without a helmet, if i get run over by a car the helmet may or may not help, doesn't mean i should just say fuck it, i might die anyway.

Why bother being self protective when i could get raped anyway...is that really the point we want to make?

Increasinglymiddleaged · 18/05/2017 15:48

I don't reject your claims that rape happens in all manner of ways committed by all manner of people. I'm just saying being drunk on a night out makes you more vulnerable, i'm not sure why accepting that as a premise is victim blaming, its just common sense.

I think the point is that it protects you personally. But if a rapist is going to rape he will rape, so it may be someone else instead. On an individual level it isn't a great idea to be passed out drunk somewhere for lots of reasons not just rape.

user1495096175 · 18/05/2017 15:50

increasinglymiddleaged Good point

Original poster
Collidascope · 18/05/2017 15:50

User, my having and living with a male partner makes me statistically more likely to be raped than if I dumped him, refused to see him again and never had a relationship again. Those would be steps I could take to reduce my risk. I won't be doing that because I think it is unlikely that he will rape me, and because I love him and enjoy having him around.

At what point do the measures a woman could take to reduce her risk also become measures that will make her life worse and restrict her?

OP posts:
PoochSmooch · 18/05/2017 15:52

I can't find the reference now, but I do recall reading that the most common item of clothing that women who are raped are wearing is jeans.

Provocative things, jeans. I'm wearing them right now - better be careful.

User, I know that it seems like anything a woman could do to avoid being raped, she probably should do, and you're making the point from a well meaning place. It seems logical, and it's something that you've probably believed all your life. But when you go deeper into it, it's neither logical nor helpful. It's controlling women's behaviour, because there's a lingering thread of belief underneath that rape is caused by something that women do. It is not.

For comparison, do you tell men not to get drunk in case they rape someone? Because that might actually make more sense, if we buy into the theory (rape myth) that rapes happen because men get confused about consent, possibly because they're addled by provocative jeans and too much alcohol. So men should not get drunk, and then rapes will definitely be prevented.

But we wouldn't say that, would we? When men's liberty is threatened, this is a bad thing. But we accept that it's OK for women's liberty to be curtailed, because fundamentally there's a part of us that believes that it's not OK for women to be drunk, free, or sexual. And if she is, well, that's how rape happens.

BandeauSally · 18/05/2017 15:53

Well your helmet analogy doesn't really work. The equivalent would be saying women should wear chastity belts because people walking or driving past them could knock them over and they could fall on a penis.

Or are you saying the road thinks you not wearing a helmet means you are asking for it and it flipping you off your bike. In which case people would say "fuck, that is one dangerous road, it needs shut down, nobody is safe on it" and they would close the road for attacking people.

user1495096175 · 18/05/2017 15:54

i give up.

BandeauSally · 18/05/2017 15:56

Oh well I'm in my pyjamas so I'm safe, oh wait, that's what I was wearing the last time I was raped.... Confused

Xenophile · 18/05/2017 15:56

Unless you can guarantee that, if no woman ever drinks again, no man will ever rape again, then it's just a platitude to make some women feel superior and others like it's their fault they have been victimised. It perpetuates the myth that women can do things to stop men harming them.

In the meantime, I'll just get on with my work raising awareness of what consent looks like and making the assumption that men are capable of behaving like human beings.

user1495096175 · 18/05/2017 16:01

i applaud your cause xeno having been raped i support anything that will help prevent it.

My experience was obviously much different to yours Beau I hope you had help and support to get through it. I was only sharing my view on the basis of my experience which was the stereotypical stranger in a dark alley who used extreme violence.

staying sober helps me. I accept you all feel differently. either way it's good to promote a dialogue about these things, even if they do provoke a few extreme and snarky responses at times.

Good luck.

silkpyjamasallday · 18/05/2017 16:03

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

NoLoveofMine · 18/05/2017 16:09

Just like a lion picks off a limping antelope in the Serengeti, a rapist may be more likely to target the drunk girl who will pose less risk to him.

Absolute nonsense and not linked to any actual statistics. This is abhorrent and upsetting victim blaming.

NoLoveofMine · 18/05/2017 16:10

I also believe that specifically in the case of stranger rape

This is NOT the case in the case of stranger rape. I KNOW it is not the case. Statistics just do not back this up at all. If anything drink is even LESS of a factor in stranger rape. This is abhorrent.

EezerGoode · 18/05/2017 16:14

I haven't the words ....what a vile excuse of a man

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