Do you notice male privilege more as you get older?

[Destinysdaughter]

I do! Partly because I know what it is and when I was younger I didn't know it existed. Examples are male friends my own age (50) looking for relationships with much younger women. Men in very good careers, not having had to take career breaks for children, not being judged on their looks or weight, being able to delay having children until they were 'ready', i.e.,40 plus. No negative connotations attached to being a single older male, not being called 'spinsters' or 'crazy cat lady' etc

Anyone else?

Again?..Ok
I know women and girls experience more day-to-day in terms of sexual intimidation, or course they do. Im not sure NOT having to live with it is exactly a privilege, just how it should be.
My comment was in reply to the idea of men not understanding that male violence is a risk, and honestly some of them do., having been brutally assaulted by men themselves.
Violence is actually more of a risk to young people in general, statistically. I don't feel scared on dark streets anymore, I don't get comments from men, or catcalled from builders anymore. I don't feel privileged because of that. just relieved.
If I had a daughter I would worry about her safety around men, but I worry about my son too.

I find it quite frustrating when people attempt to equate the risk. It's just not comparable in the slightest. Women and girls are targets purely for our sex, have to be constantly on guard and generally are less able to defend ourselves (which men know full well hence the power and intimidation element of street harassment). Also, for girls this threat isn't just from adult men but also boys. I've heard of horrendous sexual abuse shouted at girls and women by boys, not to mention all the social media comments.

No, men will never understand what it feels like to girls and women. You cannot draw parallels. Having to say this on a thread about male privilege is quite frustrating.

I don't think I have anything to add but depressingly I notice sexism, misogyny and male privilege even more as I grow older.

I've been a feminist since I remember myself and I've always been extremely aware of it but it just feels like it's so much worse now! It might because when I was younger I might have attributed certain patronising behaviours to me being young rather than female, whereas now it's clear it's the latter.

The amount of sexist stuff I hear from very senior, very 'educated', otherwise 'nice' male and sometime female colleagues at work is incredible. If it wasn't for fellow feminists online and a truly supportive DP, I would have gone insane.

Also, having DD has added a whole new perspective to the problem. Anger about sexism I am facing has been replaced by fear about what she will have to face as she's growing up.

I'm not sure I am equating the risk of sexual violence towards women with general violence towards men. They are different things, motivated by different reasons. I am just saying that SOME men do actually understand that there is a risk of male violence for women, because they have experienced enough of it themselves, albeit in different ways, usually.
If you are a young man who has lived in an area run by gangs, or in a place where knives and guns are rife, or is gay, or thought to be gay, or have veer been in prison for example, you will know that male violence is an ever present danger.
That fact doesn't diminish what happens to girls in the slightest. We should be working to fight against the acceptance of all male violence and intimidation, no matter who it affects.

Anyway, I don't want to derail what has been a really interesting thread, soo...

That fact doesn't diminish what happens to girls in the slightest.

In my opinion that's exactly what you're doing, not only by suggesting men don't have privilege in this way (as you did in your first response to me) but now even comparing the risk women and girls are constantly at to what men may experience in prison. Astounding and quite enraging.

When people deny male violence against women being pernicious and start diverting the issue to "no matter who it affects" and "men aren't privileged" that does nothing to combat the targeted violence and harassment inflicted on us due to our sex. I find it infuriating. Men do not understand it and never will. They can listen and find out a little about what it's like, be supportive, as those I'm close to are, but never actually understand.

Im sorry you are infuriated. The vast majority of murderers are men. The majority of murder victims are also men. Being a young woman is a vulnerable thing to be. Being a young man can be too.
Im not just talking about prison, im talking about just out on the streets. I have lived in bad areas, I have male family members and friends who have been badly beaten-by other men.
I take issue, when people talk about DV and say "it happens to men too" because that IS diminishing the issue. I could try and take a swing at my boyfriend but he wouldn't be scared of me, so its not something you can equate. But male violence is a massive problem, in general.

Women and girls are targeted purely for being women and girls. No other reason, much of the time. It is misogynist violence. You dismiss this by talking of "the majority of murder victims". You are diminishing the issue for so many reasons, not least because of why women and girls are targeted and who by.

The extent to which you're going to try to suggest men don't have privilege in this regard is incredible. Women and girls are constant targets of misogynist hate crime, sexual violence, and beyond, at the hands of men and boys purely for our sex. How on Earth it can be suggested men aren't privileged in not suffering this is beyond me.

This might be a start, if you're unaware of other points of view, NoLove:

www.faculty.umb.edu/lawrence_blum/publications/publications/A57.pdf

I'm not entirely sure why you've posted that but alright.

Yes and no. It always took me a long time to understand sexism when I was younger because I was so oblivious to it,but I usually got there in the end. I'm quicker to see it now.

I experience it in different ways betweenmen and women. I find my male and female seniors almost equally intimidating but in different ways. Some of the men will literally ignore my recommendations and go down a path that is the same as if I had never been there. Women will take notice of my recommendations and act on them,and will tell me if they were shit. Probably scarier

I believe in male privilege and want to agree with a lot of what's said.
However some of this stuff on here is self imposed! Women have to break it not men. Not walking under a railway bridge I'd never do that. Being solely responsible for house or children? It amazes me how often I hear people say he doesn't do it well enough so it's better if I do. Why are we making ourselves in charge of these things.
For the record I was brought up by a woman who burnt her bra but then lived by it. She probably did a bit more cooking than my dad and cleaning but she was self employed and I was brought up to believe not to defer to men that my opinions are equal, that I can talk politics at dinner, to aim high and expect etc.
I think I also assumed I would always require finl independence. I think women will struggle to break male privilege until they protect finl independence. So many of my friends looked forward to giving up work and having children - if you rely on someone else I'm sorry you're not going to feel equal. You'll feel obliged to do more to defer to them on matters of brain and you'll be deferred to for physical tasks and our world values brain over brawn . So ironic that women have chosen the physically demanding roles!!!

Some of this will cause issue but I think women need to take responsibility here they are the ones showing deference to husbands and sons. Stop it! Men enjoy the reverence paid by young women in the office.

I have two sons and I earn more than my husband. I am successful partly because I expected to be. I am surrounded by male and white privilege and just wish women would ask for more.

Certainly I worry about violence toward women. In terms of everyday stuff that affects me personally (middle-aged so not hassled by men all the time as I once was) I notice it more from women actually. At work women bosses assume competency of men where they don't assume it of women. My dream is to work somewhere that is slightly majority male as I find men much more relaxed in the workplace.

I agree with so many comments above.

One thing I have noticed as I travel by London Underground everyday is how few film posters show women, and those that do usually have a young pretty woman amid 3-4 craggy men.

Women have to break male privilege?!

motherintraining

I understand what you're saying. If women as a whole hive suddenly rose up and said no, it would definitely create a wave of change.

Indeed it did. Woman have forced through every right we have. No one said, oh you're right love, here's the vote.

And change is happening, albeit slowly. (Although I think you can see the backlash to that in the trans agenda).

Unfortunately, the underlying tool that men have to enforce suppression is their strength and threat of violence. They are socialised from birth to weaponise their maleness. And women are forced and socialised to defer to it.

Until men and women everywhere accept that there is such a thing as patriarchy and that it is damaging for both men and women, sporadic outbreaks of rebellion from women, won't cut the mustard.

Certainly I worry about violence toward women

I seem to be in quite a minority in thinking this but this is an epidemic and a clear example of male privilege (not being subject to this targeted violence due to its misogynistic motivations). Whether it affects anyone personally or not (I think all women are at risk of it) it's a major issue and one which cannot be ignored (though society as a whole does ignore it and refuses to name it for what it is).

My dream is to work somewhere that is slightly majority male as I find men much more relaxed in the workplace

I find this quite a shame. Because some women have internalised misogyny as a result of being brought up surrounded by sexism and it being reinforced constantly, you'd rather work alongside more men? Though you're talking about the workplace this whole "men are much more relaxed" line gets said a lot (not on here). Not only untrue but sexist; although it's probably a lot easier to be "relaxed" when you benefit from male privilege.

Anyhoo..., sexual intimidation and harassment of women falls when women's economic and political standing rises-it's worse in countries where women have less power.
Young feminists are, understandably because it affects them most, very focused on the sexual aspects of male oppression, but as you get older (which is what this thread is about) your perspective changes. Other issues become more apparent, like discrimination in employment, the misogyny of men who don't want to fuck you, the inequality of raising children with men.
By trying to address these things, by challenging it when men exercise their privilege we can improve our economic situation.
I don't think its the job of women to educate men, but I do agree that so many women seem to sleepwalk into very retro domestic arrangements, if some of the threads on here are to be believed.
I read a lot of "DH earns 5x what I do" and I think how did you let that happen??