Do you notice male privilege more as you get older?

[Destinysdaughter]

I do! Partly because I know what it is and when I was younger I didn't know it existed. Examples are male friends my own age (50) looking for relationships with much younger women. Men in very good careers, not having had to take career breaks for children, not being judged on their looks or weight, being able to delay having children until they were 'ready', i.e.,40 plus. No negative connotations attached to being a single older male, not being called 'spinsters' or 'crazy cat lady' etc

Anyone else?

I think it is easier to be unaware of male privilege when you are young and society treats you well but as a woman ages and enters the world of work and has a family, it begins to become more obvious.

This is very true. I also thought dh was more of a feminist before we had children - now the cracks are beginning to show!

I also used to be surprised that my dad could converse on any topic but now realize he doesnt actually know something about everything but that doesn't stop him from speaking up like it would me!

Disappointed

Well, my own partner was raised by a single mother. I would have thought it would have given him far more respect for women.

Once noticed, omnipresent! Having children, or being in any way vulnerable, makes it extra obvious, I think. And of course, as one gets older, there is a kind of cumulative effect of experience, when I have realised that sets of behaviours I have observed are not one-off, isolated incidents, but a 'thing', male privilege.

My DH was raised by a single mum too. He has a much greater respect for women than a lot of men I've met.

the Family courts wont recognise wifework so after a split where man pleads poverty and wants 50% care of child he still doesnt do all the wifework. The next generation are really going to grow up with a very strange mindset. Worries me a lot.

And yet the MRA version is that men get rinsed in divorces and family courts are skewed in favour of women, no matter what.

ifnot yes that's a shock realisation-that a lot of the attention you got as a young woman was sexual interest masquerading as niceness. I was never a flirt and couldn't be bothered with feminine wiles so I don't care that men don't fancy me as much now I'm older. But I do find it weird to be ignored by men in conversation if there's a young woman there. Because women don't do that to men.

And the young women I work with think that all the senior men are soo nice...I'm not bitter about being less universally fuckable: I'm attractive to the man that matters, but I was very naive about how much my opportunities were related to the fact that I was young and pretty.
It also astonishes me how entitled the men my age seem to feel about their professional standing, and how many women enable that by being endlessly available to pick up the domestic slack.

Mariposa, Penguin interesting both men raised by single mothers. My XH was raised by a WOHM who insisted he did his share of chores. It was only later in our marriage he decided it wasn't his job to do the shit work - or perhaps I just noticed it more after having a child because there was more of it. I agree about the early work experience when you're young and pretty but that's part of how depressing it is when you think you're striding through a brave new world and look back and realise the truth.

DH was certainly made to do chores by Mil, particularly DIY. I have to say that he's very good at doing things, including washing and odd bits of cleaning (we have a cleaner) without me having to ask. We have fallen into jobs that he does and jobs that I do, but it pretty much evens out and he would never demand that I do certain things because woman. Much as Mil does annoy me at times, she has definitely not brought him up to expect a woman to run around after him.

Interestingly, a lot of her friends with both parents still around and their children who are DH's friends the same age have been brought up very differently and seem to expect their DW/DPs to wait on them and the mothers openly criticise the Dils for not doing all the housework and childcare.

IfNot - Yy! I used to describe myself as someone who got along better with men, who preferred hanging out with men. I thought that men wanted to meet with me, have lunch with me because I was smart.

Now at 40 I realise that men basically thought that I was cute / fit / fuckable - and that's why they tolerated me being around. Not all men, obv - I have many male friends and colleagues who do genuinely want to spend time with me and who value my brain as well as my boobs. But generic Man On The Clapham Omnibus? I'm invisible to him (which is also somewhat of a relief - and it's amazing how liberating it is to Not Give A Fuck about seeking male approval)

Yy to all of the above,

Hit post too soon - especially the sexual interest masquerading as niceness in my twenties, great phrasing.

I became invisible to men once I had DD. I can leave the house without worrying about being harassed.

I hadn't realised how much I was objectifying myself on a daily basis before that. I would only want to look good for the male gaze. I would starve myself as a teen/young woman. Now I just exercise and eat healthy for better health. The thought of doing it for men doesn't even come in to it.

I'm half asleep btw. Apologies for the bad grammar.

''This is very true. I also thought dh was more of a feminist before we had children - now the cracks are beginning to show!''

This happens to so many men IME. Yet somehow gay male parents manage to get everything done. It's only when a woman is present that we become the default provider of family labour. Otherwise responsible men can take ages to see that they are not 'helping' and that it's not our task to delegate wifework to them. They must note the jobs that need to be done and get on with them.

''it's amazing how liberating it is to Not Give A Fuck about seeking male approval''
You put it better than I did. Liberating indeed. I love it.

AdultHumanFemale

Once noticed, omnipresent! Having children, or being in any way vulnerable, makes it extra obvious, I think. And of course, as one gets older, there is a kind of cumulative effect of experience, when I have realised that sets of behaviours I have observed are not one-off, isolated incidents, but a 'thing', male privilege.

YY. And once you recognise The Thing, The Thing is so bleeding obvious you can't believe you didn't see it before.

YY Datun.

Yes and then you wonder how those around you can't see it too and get exasperated, but then you realise you just realised yourself so...

MadameSzyszkoBohush

Well exactly! There is another thread about the toilets at a University being made all gender. But only the women's.

The OP (30 and pregnant) has said she has mentioned it to a couple of the other girls, but they just looked at her blankly.

It's so frustrating.

I would disagree that "society treats you well" when you're a girl/young woman. I see clear male privilege boys my age experience compared to me. Street harassment is a major one but there's the entitlement many boys my age feel to girls, how we're often spoke of (sluts, frigid, judged solely on looks etc), sexist jokes commonplace at parties, on social media, sometimes even parents favour sons over daughters even subconsciously (not mine thankfully but I know of a couple of girls who recognise this). Even just the feeling of safety on the street boys I know have which girls don't go the same extent is a privilege. Already always on guard, crossing roads to avoid boys or men at times, worrying how far street harassment will go, no way of responding which can guarantee lack of aggression.

The points made about how women become invisible once no longer deemed attractive to men are sadly interesting. Even being aware of all this, I still conform to a look which is stereotypically "feminine", so I suppose society is having quite an impact on me (it must be or there's no reason so many girls and women would have, say, long hair and boys and men short). So perhaps I'm conforming to that whilst thinking I'm wearing/appearing as I want to, which just so happens to be the kind of look generally considered attractive. Not sure where I'm going with this, a bit of a ramshackle post, sorry!

I see more internalized misogyny in women. Men are pretty often clueless/don't care about certain things that women fret about to make themselves noticed.

I agree with Ifnot about progressing or being treated well by male colleagues as I was reasonably attractive when younger, but now invisible in middle age.

I cringe now when I think of my earlier career, where I even deliberately played on my appearance, thinking it was a clever thing to do as I was using all the tools I had available to progress. I didn't realise I was playing right into the hands of misogyny and how it bites back when you get older and you can't use the same techniques, oh and how obvious it is to all around. However I now know if I do something well I'm being appreciated for my technical skills rather than anything else.

Most of the time I like being invisible. It's great being able to walk down the street at night without being harassed or if away with work, have a drink without anyone hitting on me.

Also I think that male privilege gets worse as men get older ( massive generalisation obviously) . When they are a bit younger they're keen to appear to be supportive of equality ( if not feminism) particularly around young attractive females. When families are started I think a lot of couples start out with great ambitions of equal working and split of chores - ok maybe not so much the latter - but as the DCs get older, many couples tend to revert to the traditional female p/t and male f/t roles and thus men progress more.

In my 50s I find that men in their 60s and 70s seem to think I am 'fair game'
If they think I am single they appear to believe that I must want a man in my life and they are in with a chance
15/20 years older than me, I don't find them remotely attractive, they tell me about their health problems, what are they thinking, I have no use for them whatsoever, but he still thinks he's a 'catch'🤐

Women being discouraged from doing sport because it will age you.