Do you notice male privilege more as you get older?

[Destinysdaughter]

I do! Partly because I know what it is and when I was younger I didn't know it existed. Examples are male friends my own age (50) looking for relationships with much younger women. Men in very good careers, not having had to take career breaks for children, not being judged on their looks or weight, being able to delay having children until they were 'ready', i.e.,40 plus. No negative connotations attached to being a single older male, not being called 'spinsters' or 'crazy cat lady' etc

Anyone else?

Beyond - please do, and challenge particularly the man in the group. How is he contributing to that state or not?

Not social space - conversational space. That's a better phrase.

Do it, Beyond!

There is no sexism, though. My manager said so, just after I listed a whole load of stuff at work over the years. I am over-sensitive, apparently. (He is the epitome of a mediocre white man.)

I'm definitely noticing more male privilege as I get older.

The thing that has amazed me most is how much more safe I feel as a middle aged woman. No more catcalls, no groping, no random flirtatious men. Nobody eyeing me up. It's amazing and freeing. I'm less scared and not constantly on guard any more.

Then realising that this is how men feel all the time. What a huge privilege it must be to walk through life feeling like this right from the start.

I'm early 30s and see it everywhere now in a way I didn't in my young days.

I started commuting to work on the train a few years ago and noticed that trains are a hot-bed of male privilege:

• Randomly accosting young women to "chat", this is never done in reverse
• Manspreading, this is also never done in reverse
• Men are generally the ones having the super-loud conversations on the phone about something bullshit and abbreviated so most voices on the train are male
• People asking women far far far more than men to move their bags off seats.

I am always confronting my male partner with his privilege. He kind of gets it but gets pissed off with me always pointing it out. Tough shit.

I am in the most patriarchal industry you can imagine - farming.
Things are are so much better for women now. If you do a good job nobody cares if you're male or female. There is no room for the perpetually offended though.

Beyond You know where you comment on how the group worked together, will this be read by your lecturer? Is it part of the assignment? TBH, if one of my students wrote that in an essay/report they'd be very very well on track for a high first.

And people let them. Because there's this expectation - it's kind of like the way men own space and take up more of it than women do. They take up social space as well. For the love of God why do you let them?

TBH, if one of my students wrote that in an essay/report they'd be very very well on track for a high first

However, sexism is rife and ignored in the academy. If the lecturer is not a feminist might get his precious male ego out of joint this would be a very dangerous move indeed.

YetAnother Yes, sorry, you're right totally. Beyond if you feel that your lecturer would be open to a feminist critique of group work then do it, otherwise, tread carefully.

derxa - people "let" men take up social space for reasons that may be unconscious. My (physically imposing) DP only has to walk down the pavement with his sons either side of him fr little old ladies to go scuttling. There is really no good reason. DSS2 says that teenage girls cross the road to get out of his way...

No, I've been a rabid feminist since as long as I remember so there was never any moment of revelation: I've always been grimly aware of male privilege. (And I'm quite old - was around for all the 1980s separatist/Greenham/wages for housework stuff.)

people "let" men take up social space for reasons that may be unconscious. I get that. My DH is big and has a very dour expression and he clears a path. OTOH I make a special effort not to be intimidated in this way.

OTOH I make a special effort not to be intimidated in this way.

Not only should you not have to but that's not always possible, especially when you've been the subject of intimidating behaviour (street harassment etc).

NeoTrad that doesn't surprise me regarding your stepson - I've done similar especially with groups of boys/men.

I am fortunate in that I grew up in a house where my DF was never allowed to just drone on and on. My GF however, expects to hold court constantly and cannot deal with not being the centre of attention/conversation at all times.

Does anyone else listen to the guilty feminist podcast? One of the hosts did a challenge where for a week she wouldn't move aside whilst walking down a street and always tried to take up space. There was one instance where she didn't move out of the way for a huge 6ft+ man, so he had to move out of the way of her. He was speechless and his wife/girlfriend was laughing, this had never happened to him before.

Sadly, I didn't really notice it until a few years into my relationship with my boyfriend. I'm 21, he's 25.

Just this morning, I've gotten up with our 15 m/o (despite me doing the night feed), swept and mopped the floor, got her fed/cleaned/dressed/entertained, cleaned the highchair/tables, finished the washing up that was soaking from the previous night, cleaned the bathroom, and gotten myself ready for the day... All while he is still in bed sleeping.

Now, don't get me wrong - if he worked and he was on a day-off, I wouldn't mind so much (although I would love a day-off!!!), but he doesn't.

It does seem like he just expects me to do all the toddler groups/taking the LO out, arranging childcare, thinking about schools, arranging to see family, arranging docs appointments etc.

I explained it to him once by saying: "Neither of us work atm, so why am I the main carer of our daughter, while you get to pick-and-choose? I am the 'default' for our daughter, while you are the 'helper'."

He also only does chores he wants to do, whereas I never got that choice. I hate doing the washing-up, and would love to do the launderette and shopping instead, yet he doesn't want to switch. Why is it him who gets the main choice?

Also DETAILS! Small things like cleaning the sink, wiping down the windowsills and skirting-boards, polishing, cleaning the TV... Only seem to be done when I remember to do them.

I do most of the housework, do most of the childcare, do most of the 'arrangements' for life, manage our money, have just signed up for an OU degree course, all while battling severe mental health problems...

And lo and behold - after being out with LO for 5 hours while he's been at home doing nothing all day... I've been asked to peel the bloody potatoes! Yes, he's cooking, but that will have been the only chore he has done all day... Not to mention the amount of times I have tried to reason that I would like to cook, so that I don't have to do the washing-up, yet even when I do cook - the washing-up is still my job! WTF

It's so unfucking fair.

And what happens when I get a job? Will that change my role and his expectations of me? Probably not.

Sorry, I really needed a rant.

I look at the recent election in the US, Trump is the epitome of male privilege. Hillary was a competent, highly experienced and she still lost!

More examples than I have time to recount but here's a few :

I held a position as a 'secretary'. I left, a guy got the job, they changed the title to 'personal assistant' because they felt a guy couldn't be called a secretary (the role stayed the same)

DH's uncle (65) asked me (I'm 35) to go out cycling and for lunch with him in front of his wife. I was

As gin says I could fucking weep, I really could

We had it better in the 80's

Trigger warning :

Imagine if men were raped as often as women, there would be far more prosecutions

Re: Childbirth - if it was men pregnant and giving birth the post natal and prenatal care would be far, far superior. Had two cesareans and left to care for the newborn in hospital with little help from nurses - if this were men who had been cut in half I can guarantee the reaction and care would be different.

I'm with you, mariposa.

All the shit you mentioned is called wife work. It's relentless, thankless and done by women.

toffee yes re secretary! I was somewhere recently and there is a man doing the secretary role, alongside other women at this place. Except he wants his job title changed

I think as women we do have to stand against male privilege - don't defer, don't become economically dependent and keep our eyes on the prize. I see so many posts talking about domestic set ups where the pp says "it works for us" where one partner stays at home - and I always think well actually it's working for him not you. It saddens me to read posts from 21 year olds indicating that nothing has changed. Who is bringing up these men? Why is nothing changing? What passes through the mind of a man that makes him think he can get away with this shit? Because society lets him and doesn't let us?

Me. I was so naive when I was 16. I thought things were nearly equal. After I had kids I really found out how sexist the world was. Ex and I were on an equal footing when we met, I made the sacrifices, because he wouldn't, I'd rather we'd shared the sacrifices. He earns shitloads and thinks that's cos he's wonderful (not factoring in the person doing the childcare and juggling jobs that facilitated the career progression) and thinks I should have no rights to his pension etc now he's sodded off with a childless woman, and picks and chooses when he has the kids.

I do get miserable and wonder what the point was if me working hard at school, college, uni was if I'm never actually going to have a career. I worry about how my daughters life will be, and hope my sons are not like their father.

God yeah. It's only in the last few years that I have realised just how much a lot of men despise women. And that's becase ( speaking totally objectively) most men wanted to fuck me. Now I'm 40, fewer do, and the ones that don't can barely mask their contempt. It's quite good, on the one hand, to know instantly which men are nasty bastards, but on the other hand I won't really know which men are genuinely OK until noone wants to fuck me.
I have become very cynical