Men bashing

[PirateQueenie]

Hi all,

I don't have a real purpose to this thread other than to just voice my confusion and possibly hear some other opinions.

I would identify as feminist - although for want of a better word, I would rather say I'm an egalitarian. I enjoy reading these threads, and comment on some. But what really disheartens me is all the man-bashing Ive seen. I have a male partner who is my world ♥ wonderful male friends and family members, and when I read some of the things on here I can't help but feel very defensive of the men in my life.

Is this the new wave of feminism? Or am I missing something? When I was growing up (with my mum as an avid feminist), I never heard "men this" or "men that" it was always about how women can strengthen and empower themselves WITHOUT putting men down.

Cadno obviously didn't understand the message. Bless.

Or it could be that he did understand the message but refuses to listen to it anyway. Which is not nice behaviour.

So Cadno, it was a clear and distinguishable no to you posting on her blog but you still refuse to listen to it and accept it?

That's really not nice behaviour now, is it?

GuardianLions:

"Because whatever it is, they don't miss a beat to try and put women off from reading her....."

Not sure if this was aimed at me? I wouldn't try and put anyone off from reading her, in fact I have recommended and lent Intercourse to a few people, including my sister who is an anti-feminist and lent me a book on discrimination against men in retaliation!

I think everyone should read a wide range of sources rather than just listening to an echo chamber and basing everything on your own narrow worldview. I also think that Dworkin did broadly say that all sex is rape, and I agree to a certain degree, as a man, penetrative heterosexual intercourse does feel quite like that.

This is why I really like listening to lesbians online. Especially when a man enters. The male incredulity about lesbianism is awesome to behold.

Elendon As I mentioned to Sillage, I did not post to IBTP and nor did I try. The text I posted above is taken directly from the website's 'A Handbook to Commenters', see here the advice to dudes.

Maybe this level of prejudice will interest the OP.

Bless

Hi Avon I didn't know you are male... I was speaking about 2 other male posters on this and another thread. But interesting that I got a hat trick dropping the A Dworkin bomb! Wow!

Ooh sorry I didn't catch up on the thread earlier, and thanks all for your comments.
birdbandit I didn't once suggest it was a tough "you all share", I said there were a few times I'd noticed men being generalised in a negative way. Just an observation about SOME posters. I'm reluctant to mention any other examples as apparently someone reported me for making a "TAAT" which I didn't even realise what that was. Since posting I saw on another thread a poster, who called herself a feminist, being totally obnoxious to a woman who suggested that she would like her husband present at their baby shower. This poster attacked the OP about the fact that she was a housewife and made some other pretty cruel and unnecessary comments.
Again - this is in no way me saying "all feminists share this view" as I KNOW that's bollocks, but i wanted to try and understand why some people can be so rude in the name of feminism.

I think it's just some people who are angry about how they've been treated by certain men who take it out on all men. Thankfully not too many are like that though. They've always been around though, it isnt a new thing. Some women just don't like men the same way some men just don't like women. There are of course lots of issues to be dealt with like domestic abuse, assault etc, but taring all men with the same brush will not help those issues.

Thanks MyNameIsntTaken. I hate people using any belief system as a weapon and believe they should always be called out on it! It gives others a bad name

The poster you are referring to had all posts deleted in the thread you are referring to.

The poster you are referring to has an interesting posting style. If I say any more this post will get deleted but I would not necessarily take that poster's posts (or either element of the username) at face value.

Definitely agree with you there. I always find it easy to compare any equality issues to when people had to fight for race equality and were getting attacked for their race etc.
And it's the same with that, some took it too far and just created hate groups instead of trying to unite people or just make them equal.
You can't hate an entire gender and say they're all terrible people and act all shocked when somebody does the same to you.
I don't like the fact that men are generally seen as being above women, but no way would I want the tables turned and women to be above men, just being equal is fine.

I'm quite keen on calling out patriarchy.

Ahh thanks for the update Lass, I was shocked someone could be so viscous on a place like MN. I guess there are trolls lurking everywhere!

The most sexist threads I see on here, recently are men are useless, what do you expect, typical man, have to train him.

By women who are not feminists. The non feminist women are the ones putting men's capabilities as parents down, presumably so the men can have an way life an opt out of childcare. Is that ideal?

Femininists would have their husband partner fully. Who benefits then? Well the parents and the children. In my opinion.

Pirate that person (TeacherandFeminist or something?) was only posting under that username for a day and had all their posts and those of their sockpuppet deleted. So I assuming PBP (previously banned poster).

And just because someone sticks 'feminist' in their username it doesn't mean they are one - particularly when they the go on to attack women.

But why do some women do that Ava? Who are the ones perpetuating the myth that men just 'can't do' housework etc as well as women?

Most of the sitcoms that portray men as the "bumbling dad" are written by men. Just saying.

Wellerr I presume it's because that is their experience? Also, because women want authority over their own sphere.

In a way, rubbishing men as 'useless' at housework makes some women, who may not have other skills, feel good.

(I work part time and run the house. It really annoys me when DH does things 'the wrong way'. I don't want him to do them at all, I can't understand why he does, let alone does it 'wrong'. The house is my responsibility, butt out!)

Some of the most sexist threads are started by and full of comments by women.
Who likes short hair on women? Oh short hair makes you look like a lesbian who will never get a man!
By women, for women, full of women agreeing. Not all but enough.

When men joke about how useless men are in the domestic sphere, there's a devious bloody motive behind it. Men often "help" their partners by, say, stacking the dishwasher or putting on the washing, and then make such a mess of it that their exasperated DP takes over and doesn't ask them to do it again. It's a tactic many men, even supposed egalitarian men, pursue. It's very effective.

PirateQueenie, I honestly think the best thing to do is to make your comment on the thread itself when you see a comment that bothers you. Otherwise things get very confused if you take one comment from one thread and then try to pick it apart on another thread. That's why there are rules about Thread About A Thread.

Most of the sexist stuff you'll see on here is in Chat or AIBU, not on Feminism and Women's Rights.

The behaviour of people elsewhere is not the fault of the people on here. And people sometimes aren't who they claim to be. There was a troll yesterday called FemiNazi who was deleted after some awful comments. I'm going to guess that he was not a feminist.

Just as an aside, the first comment on here that you quoted as "man bashing", well you immediately dropped your objection to it when you found out it was a man who made that comment. You no longer thought of it as "man bashing" when you found out the source of it.

Are some comments okay to make if you are a man but those exact same comments are rude if they from a woman?

Because that sounds like double standards to me.

Men often "help" their partners by, say, stacking the dishwasher or putting on the washing, and then make such a mess of it that their exasperated DP takes over and doesn't ask them to do it again. It's a tactic many men, even supposed egalitarian men, pursue. It's very effective.

I am totally with this. Another thing is that males often aren't taught or don't concentrate when being taught at as children/teens how to do domestic chores, additionally the mother of their own children is generally the one who takes time off of work when babies are born and soon (by necessity) becomes expert in developing routines, identifying risks as they happen, making preparations to avoid later chaos, soaking and treating stains, etc, etc. When dad's have their 'turn' with very little training or practice in spinning all these plates, they inevitably to a slightly crap job.

However, because of his male entitlement he will believe that he is just as capable as the mum even with very little training or practice, and then accuse the mum of being 'impossible to please with her high standards', or a 'nag'.

Many women in a state of exasperation and sheer frustration sound off about men being "useless" in these circumstances .

So I think their is often a combo of sexist upbringing/defensive male entitlement/lack of male role as primary carer in early parenthood that is to blame. I don't think women are on some weird ego trip

When dad's have their 'turn' with very little training or practice in spinning all these plates, they inevitably to a slightly crap job.

Or they are like my bil, who manage well and say to their wife they don't understand why they find looking after kids and house hard or stressful as he managed managed perfectly fine The Day She Went For Coffee.

Only reason he did OK is that kids had take away and were plonked in front of a DVD, that's it. The only plate he had to juggle was entertaining them, sis had spent morning spinning the rest and getting the rest ready to spin on her return so that so that he didn't have to, when he goes out for a drink or whatever, he just picks his keys up and goes, no sorting meals for his kids, no getting kids lunches ready next day as he knows he will be hungover to do it first thing, no sorting kids pjs out for his wife.

Going out together is the same, bil gets ready and sits tapping his fucking foot while sis is trying to get herself ready, bil complains she's Kate, but bil forgets she has sorted his and ironed his fucking clothes, as well as sorting kids stuff out, and then sorting everyone's stuff like books, snacks, all of which she has to carry in the massive bag she needs now cos she can't just walk out with her own things as the day is ruined if kids don't have something to amuse them, or a snack to tide to tide them over if lunch is late, which then becomes her fault etc.

Argh.... spartacus I know exactly what you mean.... grrrrr

HmmOkay - I find an awful lot of twisting words I have to say. When someone informed me that the poster was male I didn't just say "oh that's fine then he can say what he wants". I do still think the comment was derogatory, I just said I didn't realise it was a man, as many people started mocking the fact that I'm not psychic so wouldn't have known I didn't know that.