Men bashing

[PirateQueenie]

Hi all,

I don't have a real purpose to this thread other than to just voice my confusion and possibly hear some other opinions.

I would identify as feminist - although for want of a better word, I would rather say I'm an egalitarian. I enjoy reading these threads, and comment on some. But what really disheartens me is all the man-bashing Ive seen. I have a male partner who is my world ♥ wonderful male friends and family members, and when I read some of the things on here I can't help but feel very defensive of the men in my life.

Is this the new wave of feminism? Or am I missing something? When I was growing up (with my mum as an avid feminist), I never heard "men this" or "men that" it was always about how women can strengthen and empower themselves WITHOUT putting men down.

Now. About domestic violence.......

Yes, Lass The basis of pornography seems to be 'you dirty bitch, take this' It's so anti sensual. It's capitalistic roots were in the Victorian age where 13 year old prostitutes were seen as the norm, and a bit old - Parliament even had a debate about the rights of men to their 13 year old prostitutes. The Victorians invented peep holes (so sexy, eh?).

Yes to GuardianLions latest post.

Scrumplestiltskin

Society saying sex is immoral contributes to prostitutes PTSD. I strongly believe that if the societal shame of sex is removed there would be far less prostitute PTSD.

"As a former prostitute in a country where it is legal: this is total bollocks. Sex being considered immoral (or not) has nothing to do with post traumatic stress disorder. The trauma inflicted by (and while) being used as an object by the "clients" would be what causes that."

How anyone think other than what you have said, is totally beyond me.

On the other hand, I have seen men construct the most convoluted, ludicrous, reality-denying fantasy land around legitimising their entitlement to sex.

I think men's belief that they are entitled to sex (and therefore entitled to women's bodies) is truly bizarre. If they want a release, they can wank. The idea of paying for consent to wank into someone else (who is likely suffering from PTSD and has been driven into drug addiction through the sheer awfulness of having men fucking her all day) is just rank. I've been reading Pimp State recently and the author makes the point that some men post reviews online criticising the poor women who haven't managed to look as though they were enjoying the sex. So what men are paying for isn't just sex, but this facade that she's really enjoying it (so he can kid himself that he isn't basically raping someone) and that she likes being told she's a dirty bitch and "ooh, you like that, don't you?" (As if! was what one of the women said she used to think when 'clients' would say that.) It's not just sex he sees himself as buying, or an orifice that he's renting. He wants that and he wants the reassurance that he's still a good person.

He wants that and he wants the reassurance that he's still a good person.

It's scary. He could be your father, brother, son, nephew, granddad, uncle; he could be your child's teacher, your work colleague, your best friend, your husband or your partner.

Pornography absolutely relies on promoting sex as dirty
I completely agree. It is prudery to need the dirt, but the first excuse of those wanting porn is that anyone who objects to its use is a prude.

So. About domestic violence

Anyway. About those 2 women a week killed by their partners..........

Reporting family members and close friends for DV rather than having a 'quiet word' would make an impact.

Have you seen this bertrand? creativepool.com/magazine/advertising/j--walter-thompson-london-router-hijacks-public-wifi-to-highlight-domestic-abuse.13997

I'm more radical than that, newdaddie. I don't want to live in a world where DV gets reported to the police more often, I want to live in a world where DV doesn't happen. Which means men treating women with respect and shunning those who don't

I like Joe Biden's approach to campus rape

I just feel like I've had too many editions of "men explain the need for prostitution to feminists" for this week - can we have a quota, cause I might be able to deal better with it then

Especially when followed by "and if you don't agree you are narrow minded anti-sex puritans

Pooch lass you must have missed my post this morning p14 where I made a dozen points in response to Bertrands list. But guess what I got replies too...

Hint: It wasn't UK tax relief in relation to maternity pay for small employers.

Olenna so do I. But it's going to take a smidge more than lip service and echo chambers.

Pointing out that men are responsible for pretty much all war, murder, child abuse and rape isn't 'putting them down' it's simply an objective description of crime statistics. If your 'few good men' want to pitch in and help us eradicate these heinous acts, I'm sure womankind would welcome their help with open arms.

Men are responsible for most "war, murder, child abuse and rape" however there are also far to many women who take part in such things. If men were to stop being so aggressive would that lead to an increase in female aggression? Many posters suggest all men are to blame because they don't take a stand but what are decent males to do, my husband hates rapists, abusers and murderers but how should he show this to prove he's not the same as those who are?

Aww so we need men to stay violent so we don't become violent? How interesting...

Leia Why is his main priority proving his own position?
Surely it would be obvious if he demonstrated it by challenging sexist behaviours as he comes across them?

Emotions aren't like pie, Princess, with so many slices to go round. If men reduce their helping to one slice of aggression that doesn't mean the women automatically get - and must eat - all the rest of the pie

If men became less aggressive, I can't see any reason why women should become more so.

Rebelrogue merely a thought that men are not all bad and women all good. Guardianlions my husband is not about proving his own position he is against all forms of abuse. Previous posters have said that good men don't do enough to be against abuse and rape I'm merely asking how my husband should be less complicit and nor proactive in dealing with the problem?

Men as a class abuse,rape and murder. Women as a class are victims of such crimes.
No one said ALL men or ALL women. Might be helpful to RTFT.

I am also fed up of men bashing! Only tonight on my way home I was harassed only twice by grown men, I'm such a misandrist I should have thought about all those men who didn't make me feel intimidated and scared.

PrincessLeia80 maybe your husband should stop whining about how he gets lumped in with misogynist men and challenge men who intimidate women, who harass girls, who rape and abuse women, challenge sexist jokes from his friends and colleagues...

"Good men" do fuck all.

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil if for good men to do nothing.

NoLoveofMine my husband has never whined about this I'm complaining he's lumped in with all men! I'm simply asking how should he act to stop this? RebelRogue I only need to read first 2 pages to get into double figures of posters who say all men!

He should stop it by challenging other men and opposing every single sexist remark or joke he hears from another man.

NoLoveofMine that seems fair, if he gets beaten up, put in hospital or stabbed to death I should be happy he was a feminist to the end.