Cailyn Jenner in woman's hour now!

[Badweekjustgotworse]

Just that really!

BigDeskBob

Totally agree. The euphoria of being a woman apparently recedes about 10 years afterwards.

That's when the suicide rate goes up. Because it's not actually the answer. It's a sticking plaster effect.

I could tell that hermit was truly hurting. Having his maleness pointed out was awful for him.

And despite his claims to be happy and secure, he was still googling enough to arrive here.

His doubts and insecurities show up.

There has to be a better way.

A lot of gender-critical feminists are saying that this is because the American health system is 'for profit'.

I have no doubt there is a 'profit' element to it.

It's certainly become a niche that is now full of business opportunities.

Private councillors, drugs, surgery, clothes designed to 'pass', gadgets etc.

An awful lot of people are taking it in from:

a) people with a genuine mental health condition

b) from the larger majority of confused, possibly vulnerable people jumping on the bandwagon to fit in. Possibly a result if the seeming increase in gendering hobbies/clothes/attitudes.

C) perverts. Who have always been fairly easy to part from their money.

I worked in the NHS for years, and the disparity between money spent on surgery and mental health is shocking. Added to that, we have a group of people who don't want therapy, they rename it as gatekeeping and conversion therapy. I can't see it changing any time soon.

I do wish people like hermit would think twice before coming on here. Not because I don't want to hear their opinions, but because I don't think they are ready for the debate. Its not good for their mental health, and it's not fair that they try to emotionally blackmail us into being quiet. All my years being socialised as a women disappeared when my daughters future is at stake.

Datun, have you got a link about Sarah Brown? I've been hunting and haven't been able to find anything.

Hermit's vulnerability was painfully obvious, though that remark about not having periods was deeply weird. Comparing a MTT to a girl who has never menstruated is self-deception on a grand scale.

MTTs who claim to be female are bound to have a very, very brittle self image. Transsexuals who accept that they're male are so much more at ease with themselves. Without authenticity, self confidence can only ever be a facade.

prawn

I think this is the link. You might have to click on the internal links.

Few too many this evening.

gendertrender.wordpress.com/?s=Sarah+brown&submit=Search

On a side note, the amount of random pro-trans people (with zero posting history) who turn up on these threads is bizarre! I wonder where they're all coming from?

Mumsnet is well known as a hotbed of nasty terfy bigots in Trans forums. We're discussed on this site from page 4 in.

www.angelsforum.co.uk/phpforum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=33199&sid=cdc4b7b9d66be03636bfca846c40f115&start=60

Speaking of that site, spotted another interesting thread on there "Does Transgender equate to transition". One comment was

"I've always presumed transgender refers to someone who wants to transition / is transitioning.

"I've always thought of myself as a cross dresser (or something less nice in my darker moments)

Reading some of the threads on here, I'm happy to call myself a t-girl :smile:"

Helps explain what being transgender actually covers. Whole thread below.

www.angelsforum.co.uk/phpforum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=33378

It does make me very uncomfortable when posters post threads not giving their full history, when it would be very relevant to the thread, as a quick advance search has shown previous posters on Thai thread have done.

I.e. Relationship advice would often be different for an 18 year old woman vs a 30 year old transitioning.

It smacks of validation at any cost and a bit of delusion. It can't be good for anyone's mental health.

You know what Hermit when you didn't have a period did you have to go to multiple doctors before you got taken seriously. And then once you're taken seriously did you have to have multiple scans some of which are uncomfortable most of which were actually painful.

No?

Odd that

You have no idea. I am a 44-year-old woman I have been sexually assaulted several times in my life most recently been yesterday. The fact that he'd been drinking meant that it was okay. I shouldn't get overexcited about it, I shouldn't make a big deal about it.

I wasn't assaulted because I was conforming to gender norms of femaleness. I was dressed in jeans trainers and a rugby shirt no make up but because I have a vagina I was seen to be a fair target,you have no idea what it's like to be a female in this world.

I'm so angry, I'm fucking furious.

But because I'm female i'm not allowed be angry,it's unladylike. Because I'm female and the fact that I had been drinking was taken into account when I complained the fact that he was drinking was okay.

After all it's just men being men.

You can 'live' as a woman as long as you like I'm sorry you don't like your body but that doesn't mean you get to claim womanhood.

ItsCake

Comparing a MTT to a girl who has never menstruated is self-deception on a grand scale.

I'll say. The lack of empathy with women is quite breathtaking.

Well quite, i see TAs all the time choosing to use what is often heartbreaking realities for many women to argue their point - using "not all women have periods", "not all women have children", "not all women have wombs" etc - no thought at all to what these women have went through. As long as it serves their purpose.

ItsCake

Bambini - what's particularly breathtaking about that Twitter thread is that it's completely untrue that "many transphobes consider [a woman who has had a hystorectomy] not to be a woman". It's just a goady, baseless lie

Katelyn Burns is the TW, aldo wrote sn article about how they felt excuded bybthe recent Women's Marches actually putting women and their biological bodies at the center of the march.

theestablishment.co/how-pussy-hats-made-me-feel-excluded-and-then-welcomed-at-the-women-s-march-ef11dae19c54

Oh my goodness bambini
I can't believe the witterings of that self-absorbed cartoon of a person!

"I am constantly aware of my own incomplete womanhood between my legs."

What - you mean your cock mate?

I've heard lots of weird euphemisms for dick, but 'incomplete womanhood' is amongst the most simultaneously bizarre and intreaguing. Maybe it should come into common usage

Wearing pussyhats, or chanting about vaginas, lays out a hierarchy based on genitals that is exclusionary and painful.

Having female genitalia IS part of a hierarchy. It's the whole point of the march.

From birth, trans people are coerced, sometimes violently, into living within society’s expectations based on the shape of the flesh between their legs.

The truth is, when it comes to choosing between a pussy and a roof, I know which one I’m going to choose.

Telling women you're jealous of the reason they are oppressed and then blaming them not only subverts feminism to the point of extinction, it makes a complete mockery of wanting to be included in it.

The rights, values, viewpoint, goals and needs of transwomen and women are diametrically opposed across the board.

That is bonkers. Can you imagine any other situation where someone says that they are going to prioritise cosmetic surgery over stable housing and isn't pitied for their mental illness? Why is that trans feelings are so legitimised?

JigglyTuff

That, to me, is and always will be the crux of this.

Anything, any condition that would drive you to such extreme measures should almost exclude you from having an opinion about it. It's a medical condition. It's not a civil rights issue.

And I don't mean they shouldn't have the right to alleviate their symptoms. I sincerely do. But it should be within the confines of medical diagnosis and treatment.

Not tacked on to feminism or any movement in order to accommodate the symptoms.

I know, I find that element of it quite scary.

That article that someone (apologies, can't remember who) linked to on another thread from 4thwavenow was really frightening about how social media has fuelled this and given power to so many people who clearly are mentally unwell

Katelyn has just given up her day job to be a full time writer so look out for many more gems such as this recent one.

www.romper.com/p/im-a-transgender-mom-no-one-told-me-how-hard-itd-be-to-find-my-own-style-53606