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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

Original poster

just got my comment deleted on the Guardian website

196 replies

dangermouseisace · 14/04/2017 21:50

silly students protesting against Jenni Murray.

All I did was point out, when someone asked how our sex was being erased, that trans women offend with similar patterns to men, and concerns about recent trans women rapists, also violent trans women being housed in female prisons. I said that if these crimes are recorded as female it reduces the argument for separate safe spaces for women.

I also said about sports, and trans women being accepted onto female teams, and funnily enough being better than actual women, and advised people look up the Iran womens football team.

What did I do that was so wrong???

OP posts:
GinAndTunic · 16/04/2017 21:01

He's in the financial side of things and said it's even worse than they're letting on, they're really going down the pan.

I am neither surprised nor dismayed. The current editorial policy is a shambles.

cuirderussie · 16/04/2017 22:46

Yeah, apart from the content, the business model is a disaster, they can't go on not charging for content. Would I subscribe? No. 10 years ago maybe, not now.

FelixtheMouse · 17/04/2017 02:11

Ktown I wouldn't put money on that. When they sold the Manchester Evening News (their cash machine) they doomed themselves.

faintlyoptimistic · 17/04/2017 08:15

Thanks for this thread. I recently attended Stonewall training through work and was hoping I'd come out with a better (and more sympathetic) understanding of trans issues. Instead I came away with lots of niggles. I wish I had read some of the trans threads on here beforehand and been better prepared to question their logic. (I've been away from MN for ages due to a phone glitch).

RandomDent · 17/04/2017 11:52

I was involved in a gender discussion thread on the NUT Facebook page that got taken down within half an hour. I'm so pissed off, the default response is to silence questions and opinions. I thought that it was a very tame and polite discussion too.

HoldBackTheRain · 17/04/2017 12:15

Actually it could have been from my very first mn account a few years ago under citizen smith. I posted about a living wage for mothers and other carers and a link to a mtg about forced adoption- those 2 i definitley remember..am out now but will try and find tonight and link.

BeyondUser24601 · 17/04/2017 12:19

A few years ago?! Grin

BeyondUser24601 · 17/04/2017 12:20

AS on citizensmith...

just got my comment deleted on the Guardian website
BeyondUser24601 · 17/04/2017 12:21

January and February 2013, and neither are in FWR

GinAndTunic · 17/04/2017 12:24

faintlyoptimistic, I was completely naive about trans issues before I joined MN.

I thought that all mtt simply had body dysmorphia and went through gender reassignment surgery. I was not aware of autogynephilia, that some mtt have fetish issues or that some simply decide to change their identities but take no further action to align their physiology with their new identity.

illegitimateMortificadospawn · 17/04/2017 12:26

"A more sophisticated and nuanced understanding of the neuroscience has been completely mischaracterised or misunderstood."

There was a professor of neuroscience on the recent BBC2 documentary about transgender children who said there was no evidence of different brain structure in trans individuals. She unequivocally countered the ladybrain theory and it was explained in the preamble that this was one of her areas of research interest. I am quite happy to be guided by the professor of neuroscience on this topic, as I am sure she is more expert than most (all?) of the armchair experts on the internet.

QuentinSummers · 17/04/2017 12:33

It gets right up my nose when people make out that FWR is really unfriendly. They are nearly always talking bollocks.....

GuardianLions · 17/04/2017 12:46

They are nearly always talking bollocks.....
The least friendly corner I have found in MN is in the chat area, where lots of people, often who aren't parents, start and comment on threads demonising mothers who are just about managing and have to compromise their behaviour as perfect citizens in order to cope. They are very quick to tell you ODFOD if you spoil their sadistic, misogynistic fun. Obviously not all chat threads are like that.
FWR is the absolute opposite of that.

BeyondUser24601 · 17/04/2017 12:54

FWR in jan2014...

just got my comment deleted on the Guardian website
BeyondUser24601 · 17/04/2017 12:56

Look at all the trans hate there.

UKmm · 17/04/2017 12:58

This basically sums up the whole trans argument for me.

Exhibit 1: a woman currently being vilified in the press for augmenting her body. She has in no way said she wants to be black rather that she likes how she looks now.

Exhibit 2: a trans woman. So brave, so beautiful etc etc.

It is clear both have serious issues and body dysmorphia yet one is vilified and the other lauded.

faintlyoptimistic · 17/04/2017 12:58

Yes, that was a revelation to me too Gin. I just wish I'd known more about Stonewall's position before volunteering to go on the training. Anyway, not sure I have much to add to the discussion but, now that I'm back on here, I'll definitely be listening.

QuentinSummers · 17/04/2017 13:14

beyond That's made me sad. I miss buffy and grimble. Not seen garlic around for ages either Sad
The board is quite trans heavy atm but that's because there is a lot going on in guess

Viviennemary · 17/04/2017 13:19

The Guardian is a ridiculous paper written for head in the cloud champagne socialists for whom political correctness is the order of the day. So it's not really surprising your comment was deleted.

whoputthecatout · 17/04/2017 13:46

Hi Quentin - waves frantically. I was Grimble. Dropped out for a while because I was very busy and also felt I was too old for Mumsnet so my experiences were so different from many on here and hated to come across as an old gimmer (even though I am Grin).

Got drawn back in mainly as a lurker, only post occasionally. I miss buffy's words of wisdom too.

Be good to get away from trans issues: however, what is happening via TAs is so surreal they need to be challenged. It's colonisation of womanhood by stealth.

Cultural appropriation gets damned...but sexual appropriation seems to be OK in the eyes of many, not least the virtue signalling 'liberal' wing of feminism aka so-called feminism.

I console myself with the thought that it will all come back to bite them on the bum sooner or later.

QuentinSummers · 17/04/2017 15:47

Hurray!!! Hello Smile
WineFlowers

DameDeDoubtance · 17/04/2017 16:08

If we cannot own the word woman, and define that in simple terms, then how do we ever liberate ourselves? That's why it needs fighting.

I miss buffy, where'd she go?

OlennasWimple · 17/04/2017 16:15

Yikes, UKmm!!!

Terfinator · 17/04/2017 16:15

I used to subscribe to the Guardian, but nowadays I wouldn't use it to line my cat's litter tray!

Their misogyny, hatred of the working class, and nepotism is beyond parody.

That horrible Owen Jones boy makes me shudder! He's a gay man, but said that lesbians are bigots unless they have sex with trans women! Angry

GuardianLions · 17/04/2017 16:33

beyond I would like to turn back the clock to the days before Brexit, Trump, Caitlyn Jenner, the wide social acceptance of transing kids too.

But I don't want to go back to the days of TRA, MRA trolling and sock-puppeting FWR and every trans critical thread being zapped by skittish mods.

However we can't turn back the clock, this is where we are now and accusing posters of 'hate' will do nothing to change it.