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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Women in certain industries.

167 replies

Tonka4 · 16/03/2017 11:46

Just wondering what your thoughts are on certain industries being male dominated in terms of jobs? I'm thinking mainly science, technology and engineering industries. Is it sexism at play?

There is a follow up question to this.

OP posts:
squishysquirmy · 16/03/2017 13:37

Neuroplasticity.

IAmAmy · 16/03/2017 13:37

And even the debunked study they cited said there's no difference until 13, yet sexists claim girls and boys are totally different from birth. It's just too easy with these trolls.

ChocChocPorridge · 16/03/2017 13:37

www.wired.com/2011/12/london-taxi-driver-memory/

In return, I bring you Taxi drivers - as you can see, brain scans of adults show that what you do changes your brain significantly.

You'll also note from your own study that:

Male and female brains showed few differences in connectivity up to the age of 13, but became more differentiated in 14- to 17-year-olds

Doesn't prove these so called hard-wired differences are innate at all..

Tonka4 · 16/03/2017 13:39

Haha, so you supply a link to a study that even admits that there are some differences? Clap clap.

OP posts:
DJBaggySmalls · 16/03/2017 13:40

Here's some info on the gender pay gap in STEM for you Tonka4
In Australia at the last count if was 30%. Thats calculated as parity in pay, not an average.

Tonka4 · 16/03/2017 13:40

Well, yeah girls and boys are different. They have different organs for starters...

OP posts:
IAmAmy · 16/03/2017 13:40

Hilarious that the OP only engages with me when they think they're making a cutting point but are in fact again proving their own idiocy.

DJBaggySmalls · 16/03/2017 13:40

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_in_STEM_fields
''In Australia, a study conducted by the Australian Bureau of Statistics has shown that the current gender pay gap between men and women in STEM fields in Australia stands at 30.1 percent as of 2013, which is an increase of 3 percent since 2012.[15]''

IAmAmy · 16/03/2017 13:42

The OP came on desperate to wind up feminists and ended up getting ridiculed, every point made which they were so sure would rile people entirely debunked and couldn't even debate with a 16 year old, truly tragic.

Tonka4 · 16/03/2017 13:42

You do understand that different job pay differently, right?

Even if those jobs are in the same field.

OP posts:
Knifegrinder · 16/03/2017 13:42

If you'd bothered even to read the internet page you linked to, you'd see numerous links to other articles decrying this as irresponsible reporting which essentially falsified the research:

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/dec/03/men-women-brain-wired-differently-study-mental-illness

When I spoke to Professor Ruben Gur, one of the academics in charge of the research, he told me that it was very important people understood that "we are talking about averages". He went on to explain that the study was focused on mental health problems in children and young adults and that, because men and women are, on average, more susceptible to some forms of mental illness than others – for example, men to psychosis and women to depression – it was important to do some gender-related research. This study, then, is to do with diagnosing and treating various types of mental illness. It's not about saying that geezers like to read maps and birds like to have touchy-feely chats. It's not, as Gur was at pains to point out, about dividing men and women

www.theguardian.com/science/2013/dec/07/brain-science-ditch-male-female-cliche

Yes, men and women probably do have differently wired brains, but there is little convincing evidence to suggest these variations are caused by anything other than cultural factors. Males develop improved spatial skills not because of an innate superiority but because they are expected and encouraged to be strong at sport, which requires expertise at catching and throwing. Similarly, it is anticipated that girls will be more emotional and talkative, and so their verbal skills are emphasised by teachers and parents. As the years pass, these different lifestyles produce variations in brain wiring – which is a lot more plastic than most biological determinists realise.

In fact, Verma's results showed that the neuronal connectivity differences between the sexes increased with the age of her subjects. Such a finding is entirely consistent with the idea that cultural factors are driving changes in the brain's wiring. The longer we live, the more our intellectual biases are exaggerated and intensified by our culture, with cumulative effects on our neurons. In other words, the intellectual differences we observe between the sexes are not the result of different genetic birthrights but are a consequence of what we expect a boy or a girl to be.

Tonka4 · 16/03/2017 13:43

IAmAmy Maybe this is why so few women identify as feminists. Most feminists are pretty mean spirited and nasty in nature.

OP posts:
FlaviaAlbia · 16/03/2017 13:43

Clap clap

Ah, sparkling repartee too I see Grin

Knifegrinder · 16/03/2017 13:43

Hang on, Tonka, can you actually read, though? Only there's no evidence of it on this thread.

Perhaps someone could convey the studies' findings via the medium of interpretive dance for your benefit.

DJBaggySmalls · 16/03/2017 13:44

Tonka4 So Govt statistics cannot be believed you say?
Can you not tell the difference between average pay and parity in pay? I did mention that.

squishysquirmy · 16/03/2017 13:44

Has anyone on here claimed that girls and boys (or men and women) are biologically identical Tonka?
No.
We are arguing that sexism is a factor in why women are underrepresented in certain careers.

Resorting to strawmen is what people do when they are losing the argument.

squishysquirmy · 16/03/2017 13:45

I though we were nurtering and maternal?
Or is that because we are not proper women?

Tonka4 · 16/03/2017 13:46

You do realise that by pointing out and ridiculing a figure of speech like that only makes you come across as petty. If someone starting a sentence with the word 'listen' really irks you I'd put it to you that you have a pretty easy life!

OP posts:
IAmAmy · 16/03/2017 13:46

If by "mean spirited" you mean "not going to blindly agree with debunked sexist tripe" then yeah Grin

And actually I started out posting seriously, but as with the countless others who've proven you wrong you chose to totally ignore it because it didn't fit with what you wanted to achieve by starting this thread (spout sexist nonsense and cause arguments).

squishysquirmy · 16/03/2017 13:47

Reading links is women's work, knife.
Men like Tonky are too important and busy shouting their opinions to back them up with anything.

IAmAmy · 16/03/2017 13:47

Knifegrinder Grin exactly. So many posts engaging with them in good faith they entirely ignored, again proving their motivations for the thread.

FlaviaAlbia · 16/03/2017 13:48
KatharinaRosalie · 16/03/2017 13:48

girls and boys are different. They have different organs for starters...

and clearly, you need a penis for STEM, but it gets in the way in nursing..

IAmAmy · 16/03/2017 13:49

So to prove their point the OP supplied a link they didn't even read to an article even one of the professors who lead the research said misrepresented it. Oh dear. 2/10 at best for this troll.