Women in certain industries.

[Tonka4]

Just wondering what your thoughts are on certain industries being male dominated in terms of jobs? I'm thinking mainly science, technology and engineering industries. Is it sexism at play?

There is a follow up question to this.

Crying with fucking laughter here.

The problem with branding everything as sexist is that it discourages the notion of personal responsibility.
The problem with ignoring sexism is it perpetuates it. Since sexism is a definite thing with a specific definition, it can be described and explained. It can also be challenged.
Challenging sexism is the opposite of victimhood.

If you'd spent any time talking to women instead of lecturing them,. you might be aware of specific instances of sexism in the workplace. There are several over on other boards, including one from a mother concerned after her daughter has been groped at work and told not to report it.

Tonka4: My point being that men and women are different and are interested and thus go into different work sectors. Women prefer nursing because for the most part they are more nurturing and maternal than men. Men in general are more technically minded and more interested in how things work hence going into STEM fields more often.

What a load of nonsense. Tell that to the 50% of women who work in my prev career doing a traditionally male techy role.

Men and women are not different, people are different.

I wonder what box I fit in - often mistaken for cabin crew yet do, what some might call a male role, ride supersports bikes, maintain vehicles, make cards, garden/diy, love a spa day and the rest.....

It's such a disservice to all women to say they're not interested in how things work and they're not technically minded.

Her lifelong dream was to be a military pilot, but Hegar had no idea her true fight would be against institutional sexism, abuse and the official exclusion of women from the battlefield — even though women have been secretly serving in combat for decades.

But obviously someone sitting around desperate to wind feminists up knows best

I suspect Tonka is male and having an issue with females in his industry.

If it's a female, it's weird.

Well, they have more to prove from the outset due to people like you believing that women in general aren't suited to that sort of job. It does take effort to overcome other people's perceptions, and it takes effort to swim against the tide (which these female pilots will have been doing from an early age).

You are sort of proving my point yourself - you think we are not used to attitudes like yours?
You think we have not met teachers, parents, careers advisors, university staff who also think that our female brains are not wired properly for technical careers?
That if we do like understanding how things work, then we are exceptions and atypical women (ie, a bit weird and not "real" women- a very hurtful stigma to adolescent girls, btw).

Not to mention listening to a colleague bore on and on and on and mansplain to them what female pilots think (Have you asked them?). That must add to the workload somewhat.

Currently 5 - 6% of Easyjet's pilots are women. Doubling that figure will mean 88% of Easyjet's pilots are men. Doesn't sound like the men are going to be that disadvantaged by Easyjet's groundbreaking policy, does it?

source: Easyjet website

It should be based on merit and nothing more.

Of course, all men got their positions based on merit only.

Do you know that if an orchestra audition is blind, meaning the jury does not see who is playing, womens chances to be chosen increase severalfold. Interesting, wouldn't you say?

It is fucking hilarious that a man backs up his opinion that men are more logically and technical with the most illogical, poorly though out arguments possible.

It is also hilarious that a male pilot who appears to blame feminism for problems with his career comes onto a feminist board to moan about women not taking responsibility for their career success.

Has anyone else heard of "Tom swiftlys"?
This thread has randomly reminded me of one of my favourites:

"I used to be a pilot, he explaned".

Are you kidding me? I'm not going to waste my time on hunting out information you won't look at.

If you can't see how sexist that statement is, you must be a bloke.

squishy Way to twist everything I said!

And Lonny it will actually. Roughly the same percentage of men and women will be applying for these roles so women will be at an advantage in this instance.

Do I have a problem with women flying? Of course I don't. Do I have a problem with people getting roles because of their sex/race/religion or whatever, absolutely yes.

Men in general are more technically minded and more interested in how things work hence going into STEM fields more often.

Bullshit! Demonstrably so.

Of course some women like engineering and some men like nursing. But they are the exception rather than the rule.

Also bullshit. I'd like to see the peer reviewed research that supports this particular howler.

I'm sure if you told those female pilots that it's sexism stopping women doing certain roles they'd tell you to get a grip, take some responsibility and work for it.

I'm sure if you told those male pilots that it's sexism stopping women doing certain roles they'd tell you to get a grip, take some responsibility and work for it. Because let's face it, there's nothing mediocre men hate more than having it pointed out that they only have their positions because of a long tradition of positive discrimination.

I could point out numerous studies that show how sexual discrimination works (there's a really interesting one about physics degrees and how the removal of names from exam scripts led to a leap in the number of women gaining firsts) but I get the impression you are so self satisfied with your world view that anything that challenges it is immediately dismissed.

When did I say I was a male? Or even a pilot?

Tonka - look at my last post - men are already in roles for which there were likely better women candidates.

Anyway as I said there really is no point engaging with the OP, came to wind people up, failed so resorts to posting what they intended to from the start and ignoring the plethora of posts which refutes the nonsense they came out with. Risible.

The reason that it's mostly working in STEM jobs is that boys are more likely to study maths, physics and computing at school, which then lead to those jobs. This isn't because boys are better at these subjects (girls tend to outperform boys in these subjects), it's because there's still a feeling that they are boys' subjects.

So, yes. Sexism.

Yup, the more the op posts the more it becomes very apparent they are male.

I'm not suspecting it's someone who is jealous of a woman's progress, or has been edged out by a woman. Some bitterness there. Not sure there is much point prolonging the discussion.

slug exactly, there's no point as the OP won't read or engage with anything which proves what they're saying wrong as already proven. What they'll do is continue to reply as long as they think they can continue an argument which allows them to say what they want to and ignore anything else. I'm astounded someone thinks that's a good use of their time.

Now suspecting not not suspecting,,!

You really have brought a knife to a gun fight, OP. You're going to need some better material than your little just-so stories about man brain and lady brain.

I'm not twisting anything.

"Do I have a problem with people getting roles because of their sex/race/religion or whatever, absolutely yes"

Well then, given that roughly the same percentage of men and women apply for the roles, it makes the 5% of woman currently holding those roles that Lonny highlighted look even worse doesn't it?
Doesn't that suggest that in order for those huge imbalances to occur, people have been selected due to their sex? It's just that so far the bias has been in favour of men.
You said earlier that if women want a job they should just apply for it, but it looks that they have been doing just that, and yet are still massively underrepresented.

Are you fine with hiring biases as long as the work in your favour?

Bluntness You can come to whatever conclusion you like. If I was edged out by a women in whatever job I went for, and I'm sure I have in the past, I really couldn't care.

"When you're accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression".

I actually agree with the OP on reflection, I'm sick of people getting jobs for their religion, why does some Church of England Christian always become Archbishop of Canterbury?

No, I am not twisting your words.
If you don't want your words misunderstood, learn to express yourself better.
Take some responsibility, get a grip and stop playing the victim card.