Until we organise as well as the transactivists we're not going to stem the problem

[dorade]

Everyone, regardless of race, creed or sex is entitles to the same human rights.

I have three issues with much of the current trans ideology:

1. The erosion of women's spaces, sports, achievements and quotas by biological males who wish to identify as females.

1. The transing (and therefore subjection to lifelong medical treatments, invasive surgery and potential sterilisation) of children for failure to comply with societally-imposed gender norms.

1. The erasure of lesbians, either by transing of potentially lesbian girls or by transwomen claiming to be lesbians.

The trans lobby is vocal and well funded. They have found an enormously soft target in schools/government/social care, all of whom unsurprisingly associate transgender with gay and lesbian issues and don't want to repeat the bigotry that gay and lesbian people were (and are) subjected to. Identity is not the same as sexual orientation. A person's sexual orientation treads on no-one else's rights. The same cannot be said for gender identity.

When articles, such as the recent transgender rapist one, appear in the press, the vast majority of comments show that the public is not fooled. Yet people keep quiet so as not to appear bigoted, thus allowing the movement to steamroller on at the expense of women and children.

I believe that the main target for opposition should be in our schools. Organisations such as Gires and Gendered Intelligence distribute material that promotes ideas such as pink and blue brains and that any child can choose whether to be a girl or a boy to impressionable children, backed up by teachers. Opposition to this is needed and it is not happening in any concerted way. I think a backlash has every chance of succeeding as there is huge latent support for it.

The average person in the street knows little to nothing of trans issues, but is likely to believe that a transwoman will have had his penis removed. The fact that in 2 weeks' time the Government is going to be debating replacing sex with gender identity as a protected characteristic is way off the radar of 99% of the population.

Mumsnet is brilliant in debating these issues, but we need to take it to the next level.

YES BEV!

I tried crocheting one but it went a bit wrong but I could probably still wear it.

I need to set one up
I will do it tomorrow, if I pm you will you link me to the rad fems?

CPS pack:
www.transgendertrend.com/cps-schools-project-the-erasure-of-sex-and-the-silencing-of-girls/

We need to force an answer to 'what is the definition of a woman?'

I really can't see many women, however unaware they are of the wider issues, being happy with '...um, anyone who says they are'.

Pencils YYY "We could tweet the fuck out of their hashtag."

Here is a very useful explanation of the legislation that currently protects womens spaces. It was written by a UK solicitor. Worth reading. theartofdissent.files.wordpress.com/2016/06/how-legislation-protects-women-only-spaces-and-services-an-overview-june-2016-1.pdf

In some circumstances where a single-sex space is needed it is not discrimination to exclude someone of the opposite sex even if they have a GRC.

There are a number of exemptions where services can be single sex only. We have to be vigilant and make sure that organisations do not contravene sex-discrimination laws when they make changes to align with gender reassignment discrimination laws.

Ive already written to my MP . No response , but she isn't exactly a gynephile .

Up for it though .

That was me bev! Someone asked #isitok about transgender/ transable but I'm not sure it'll get picked up

I'm setting up a TERF Twitter account to join the fight and going to look into a face to face with my MP.

I willing to put up with the abuse if it means my daughter can grow up free of this bullshit!

We need to March or do something that attracts attention from the media they need to see how many of us support this!

Good campaigning works best these days based on facts and figures but sometimes the most effective works on the feels (see Brexit).

There needs to be more awareness among women about this issue and the threat to the idea of what a women is. Basically a campaign that asks "if there is a penis, is that person a woman?" as a start. I know that some will want to jump in at the deep end and proclaim lots about glands and chromosomes but a simple message is a start and is effective. Shouting you were born a man so you are a man isnt going to work. Trans is a valid identity. But claiming to be a woman when you are not, isnt. And stating things like genitalia, periods, wombs, certain glands, contraception problems are what make a woman and keep it simple.

Whilst true, academically structured arguments regarding ABC critical theories about XYZ arent going to be good in a sound bite. Yes, women are pushed down by a patriarchy and a society that acquiesces to violence by men so easily. But in a 30 sound bite opportunity on a radio all that does is open the door to trans being victims of crime as well.

Use the recent example of the weightlifter from new zealand. That just calls into question so much in terms of fairness.

Offer alternatives, dont limit a passport to M and F. We dont want to question peoples decision to not accept the identity society has put on them (dont start with the chromosome thing here please). Retain what it means to be a woman with that identity but recognise that some people are not able to see themselves in one (so are trying to jump into the other).

Challenge those who oppose with creepy fuck of things like the Cotton Ceiling - build campaigns with the lesbian community and include them in the identity of being a woman. Likewise bi women and women of colour.

Build other partnerships, even with those who are questionable when it comes to women. Like the religious who will no doubt share the key issue about a woman being a woman.

Be factual and be careful with the feels.

Im happy to compile a list of all our Twitter accounts.

I was thinking if everyone PMs me their Twitter handles Iver the next few days I can make one long list of our Twitter names and then PM the list out on Monday. Perhaps we can also share Twitter handles for the gender critical women we follow if people want to include those in PMs too?

I've never organised or took part in any kind of activism so don't know if what I'm suggesting is helpful so if it's not a good idea Oleasevdont be afraid to tell me.

Good idea, I'm creating a twitter acc soon!

Have been following all the recent threads with interest, this one in particular.

I would like to protest but would be too scared for my job
What about some form of 'virtual' or 'in absentia' protest. For example, a downloadable template of a female bathroom door figure that you could colour in, write comments/ protests on, then send off and they all get stuck up somewhere?
I think something visual to show just how many women have a problem with all this (but are too scared to speak out) would be really powerful and that is hard to do on twitter etc.

This sounds like a great idea. That cps document tipped me over the edge! Unbelievable that that shit is used in schools.

I've never used Twitter. How can you make yourself anonymous? Presumably the Twitter handle needs to be non-identifying. Is the account linked to an email address?

Great thread

Several thoughts occur - we need legal advice, we need a legal briefing and any petition ideally should be drafted by a lawyer, I think one or two of the women's groups I'm in are already looking at getting legal clarification. I think before any materials etc are produced we'd need to be absolutely water tight legally

As far as I understand it (and forgive me as I'd been reading this all over so had repeated it myself) SEX will not be deleted in the new bill, it will remain a characteristic, but gender reassignment will be replaced with gender identity, thus rendering all the sex based legal protections meaningless as sex just becomes something you identify as. The result is the same, sex in any meaningful way will be gone, but one will not replace the other. I'd really like some clarification around all of this, but that's what I read yesterday.

This thing overlaps with harrassment legislation (I stupidly commented on a newspaper article on FB, my FB is locked down, but I still got a torrent of hideous threatening PMs which was very unpleasant, unwanted repeated contact over social media is actually a crime, other more high profile women have had a horrible horrible time of it), human rights and things like the UN's CEDAW which the UK is signed up to, I'd like clarification on how it all fits together

We need a figure head, or we need several, someone like Jenni Murray (not sure she could cos of her job) or JK Rowling or someone who isn't immediately written of as a 'man hating feminist' - my mum is not a feminist but the penny has dropped on this issue. Also hate to say it we need MALE voices, women don't get listened to, but men do. Someone like Grayson Perry or some gender crit man. Also there are plenty of gender crit transsexuals, we need those on the team. We also need MONEY. We might have to find a lead organisation or form an organisation. Just thinking out loud here. But if we crowd funded a legal test case (say, girl guides) donors would need to be reassured the money was going to a legitimate organisation.

HOW we organise is tricky, as it's difficult to get things done spread across the net, but it's not really safe to out ourselves or have a conference or whatever. There must be a way of better coordinating our efforts without attracting every geek, freak, weirdo MRA troll

I agree that the actual bill itself is the end of the line, but there is plenty of stuff already happening that I don't think is legal (can the green party really call us non males and uterus bearers) and I'd really really like more scrutiny brought to bear on these Trans orgs spreading this misinformation, particularly if they are registered with the charity commission because there are RULES. Charities are not allowed to be political for instance.

Oh and come the feminist revolution, not only would I like to stop this nonsense, I'd like 'woman' to be come a legally defined protected characteristic and misogyny to become a hate crime.

WOLF in the USA are doing this (women's liberation front) - is there a similar organisation in the UK?

Sorry, really what I'm saying ^^^ is we need a manifesto, a briefing and a strategy.

I agree that we need an organised campaign. I see this bill as enormous threat to women. Many women do not understand how this bill impacts on women rights. I think this is because women are raised to be kind and defer to men. But now is the time to protect the rights that our sisters fought so hard for.

We probably need to move to a closed forum.

Agree with everything you say girlsscout. Especially questioning the meaning of sex as a protected characteristic if there's no meaningful way to define what sex means.And agree we need to challenge where the law is currently not being applied correctly by trans organisations and those writing guidelines.