Until we organise as well as the transactivists we're not going to stem the problem

[dorade]

Everyone, regardless of race, creed or sex is entitles to the same human rights.

I have three issues with much of the current trans ideology:

1. The erosion of women's spaces, sports, achievements and quotas by biological males who wish to identify as females.

1. The transing (and therefore subjection to lifelong medical treatments, invasive surgery and potential sterilisation) of children for failure to comply with societally-imposed gender norms.

1. The erasure of lesbians, either by transing of potentially lesbian girls or by transwomen claiming to be lesbians.

The trans lobby is vocal and well funded. They have found an enormously soft target in schools/government/social care, all of whom unsurprisingly associate transgender with gay and lesbian issues and don't want to repeat the bigotry that gay and lesbian people were (and are) subjected to. Identity is not the same as sexual orientation. A person's sexual orientation treads on no-one else's rights. The same cannot be said for gender identity.

When articles, such as the recent transgender rapist one, appear in the press, the vast majority of comments show that the public is not fooled. Yet people keep quiet so as not to appear bigoted, thus allowing the movement to steamroller on at the expense of women and children.

I believe that the main target for opposition should be in our schools. Organisations such as Gires and Gendered Intelligence distribute material that promotes ideas such as pink and blue brains and that any child can choose whether to be a girl or a boy to impressionable children, backed up by teachers. Opposition to this is needed and it is not happening in any concerted way. I think a backlash has every chance of succeeding as there is huge latent support for it.

The average person in the street knows little to nothing of trans issues, but is likely to believe that a transwoman will have had his penis removed. The fact that in 2 weeks' time the Government is going to be debating replacing sex with gender identity as a protected characteristic is way off the radar of 99% of the population.

Mumsnet is brilliant in debating these issues, but we need to take it to the next level.

Protecting the rights of one group - those who are trans - does not entail reducing the rights of another - women.

Name one.

So you speak for a diverse minority now? On what basis? From the position of the privilege of having a gender identity that is consistent with your sex chromosomes.
And repeatedly saying gender is binary does not change the facts.
Given the complexities of chromosome and physical abnormalities and of what constitutes femininity and masculinity how do you define gender?
If only it was as simple as some believe - has a penis is a bloke, has a uterus and ovaries and a vagina is a woman. But as I ahve shown above it just ain't so. 😉

I'm quite secure in my knowledge of disorders thanks Bev.
Whilst you are correct in that most Turner's identify as female and most Klinefelter's identify as male it is not always the case.
I notice that you ignore the other disorders and my point about physical abnormalities 😉😄

Datun Name one what? Your question, like so much in these threads is unclear.😀

Thanks Bev.

Its nice to see the standard of response is as high as the standard of knowledge, understanding and courtesy in these threads. 😉

There are numerous examples that have already happened in other countries who have passed this bill to show how rights of gender identity trample over the rights of females, including women being raped and murdered. That are linked on the other thread iris, and you ignored those examples then.

I will define gender for you, it's a hyrarchy impossed on females by the patriarchy

I have posted as much as I am willing to on this thread. It really is a waste of my time to continue given the level of discourse. Hopefully some will read what I have posted and have a clearer idea of the issues😀

So you speak for a diverse minority now?

Nope. They have spoken for themselves. Categorically.

www.aissg.org/21_OVERVIEW.HTM

Ignore the attempt at derailing, Iris has tried this on most trans/gender self ID threads and isn't likely to stop their tactics now if people continue to engage.

I've posted in support of your Caroline Flint web chat suggestion, CoolJazz. A Twitter thread would be a good idea as proposed by a PP - it could become a directory of who to follow and also highlight any particularly prolific dangerous/vile/threatening Twitter accounts so that we could be forewarned about who is likely to turn nasty.

Blimey cooljazz we're not in the playground!

Your post illustrates the level of discourse that I refer to above and might be enough to persuade me stay! 😎

Keep reading folks. People show their true colours when they are under pressure. 😉

Oh dear - seems I've upset Bev too.

Its always difficult when facts get in the way of a good argument.

How is answering a question about how to define a woman derailing the thread?

How is providing factual information regarding the gender recognition legislation(current and proposed) derailing?

How is providing facts about the CPS education pack and PSHCE education derailing?

Awkward silence..........

Pagenotfound

Are you familiar with the concept of controlling information according to one's political agenda? It is not part of a healthy democracy.

Imagine telling people what they should and should not read, sounds very authoritarian to me. Can't you trust people to make their own minds up about what to read?

Caroline Lucas would be an interesting person to hear from too. More diverse the better 😉

Ok can we all agree to ignore iris?

YES PLEASE!!!!

Signing off for now. Have other stuff to do. 💻📆