Jenni Murray "Changing sex can't make a real woman"

[Freddorika]

'Those who have lived as men, with all the privileges that entails, do not have the shared experience of growing up female.'

Brave and interesting article in the Times.

Link here behind pay wall I think

www.independent.co.uk/voices/jenni-murray-sunday-times-transgender-india-willoughby-a7616151.html

About to read...

"Because the world is not organised to disadvantage and victimise people who “feel female”: it is organised to disadvantage those who are female."

"Jenni Murray broke the rules, because the rules are always set up to break women. The more we’re punished for saying that, the more insultingly obvious the truth of it is."

Oops sorry cross post!

It's depressing, I have one (male) friend who has linked the article and said that Jenni Murray is a bully and another male friend who has commented on someone else's attempt to support Jenni Murray by saying that transmen don't benefit from male privilege because they don't feel like men. Aargh. I think I have very good arguments for all the points but I'm scared, as a survivor of male violence as a child and an adult I get scared very easily unfortunately. I know other people have said this but it's ridiculous that women feel scared to comment on what it's like to be a woman.

exactly Autumntactics. I am scared too. My mental health can't really cope with the extreme aggression and piling on that happens when you post even the most nuanced or balanced point or discussion on social media, ime [which is why GirlScout unfortunately I feel unable to share Ditum's article] Glosswitch wrote on twitter this:

'For every woman called a TERF there are another 20 DMing her, saying they agree with her but are scared'

And women are generally called Terf within a very aggressive and intimidating context.

I have shared on my FB page and have probably lost 3 friends.

I am an adoptive mother. I will never be a biological mother (I imagine - that ship not only was never going anywhere but has well and truly sailed!). My friends who gave birth (or had c-sections) are biological mothers, my children's birth mum is a biological mother. I am still a mother, but I will never be a biological mother. There are however lots of categories of mother.

I really dislike the term "real" and it has a huge set of baggage in the adoption community - but the main people harmed by it are small children who are told "she's not your real mum".
I imagine small children who are told "you're not a real boy" are also harmed by it.
But I'm not going to be harmed by people saying I'm not a "real" mother. Annoyed, yes, finding it laughable (I'm not made of plastic), yes, but not harmed.

PS also apparently I'm endangering small boys' genitals by refusing to say that dressing in "girls" clothing and liking "girls" toys are classic signs of gender dysphoria and should be on a list of "symptoms".

BevGoldbergsSister!

drspouse, I think 'real' is a red herring in your case - adoptive mothers are not biological mothers but still real mothers. I think a better analogy would be fathers insisting on being called mothers? [see Greer's comments on David Furnish]

It's happening. The Telegraph report today on the rising numbers of women committing sexual assaults - with their lead picture the transgender rapist Lisa Hauxwell, with not even a mention of his/her transgender status, but as evidence of the rising stats of sexual offences committed by women. www.telegraph.co.uk/women/life/truth-female-sex-offenders/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

What. The. Actual. Fuck????????

They hint at it with the "may be living as a man or a woman", but that isn't clear. And they've deliberately chosen a picture where Hauxwell is presenting a fairly feminine appearance. Could they not find a female offender with as serious a criminal history to discuss?

It is appalling that statistics on crime are being warped in this way.

Yes, they do say that, but this person/picture is deliberately headlined as evidence that women sexual offenders are on the rise.

CharlottaBronte

Ladies

Be prepared to be angrier than you've ever felt. The Torygraph have written an article on the 'truth' about female sex offenders.

you guessed it, it's the double rapist from crimewatch who is trans and described on air as 'a woman possibly dressing as a man'

we need a lawyer, NOW

www.telegraph.co.uk/women/life/truth-female-sex-offenders/

Sorry, of course you smart women were on it already! We still need a fucking kick ass women's lawyer! This is surely not LEGAL?

Jesus fucking christ. So in your face, so blatant. Yet we are the ones in the wrong for pointing out that crimes committed by males are fuck all to do with females. My god.

Yes, and they don't mention either that he committed these offences AS A MAN. What can we do? If we do nothing sexual assault stats committed by women will continue to be skewed. We have to act now.

OMFG
I think I want to take a break from the world for a while
Lisa Hauxwell is not female.
Maybe the rise is to do with trans women getting lumped into female statistics.
I'm so angry

it is, er, journalism and academic work that is deliberately misleading at least?

What the fuck is going on with that Telegraph article?! How can JM have a bias warning, whilst untruths are being printed without an editor of a major paper questioning it??!

I'm not opposed to men calling themselves women because of male privilege.
I'm opposed to men calling themselves women and saying they have always been women because it's just nonsense.
I believe sex is real and gender is a social construct.
I am a woman because I am a woman, not because I identify as female, played with particular toys as a child, think in a certain way, dress a certain way, have certain hobbies and habits. These are all socialised and some cultures do things differently.
If some people WISH they were the other sex they have to look at why that is and what it is about their own sex they dislike and why they think being the other sex would be preferable and why they can't be the person they want to be in the body and sex they have.

I've just fallen out with a trans friend. I couldn't cope with the utterly self deluded , women hating, woe is me, let's forget about the kids and wife whose lives I totally bollocked up , nasty, untrue shite that he/she was posting on fb all the time.
I've been given my terf badge...do you know what, I'll wear that badge with pride now