The Orgasm Gap!

[SomeDyke]

Forget about pay and all that! According to new research:

BBC News Report

"The study, by Indiana University, Chapman University and Claremont Graduate University, showed the proportion of people who usually orgasmed was:

65% of heterosexual women
66% of bisexual women
86% of lesbian women
88% of bisexual men
89% of gay men
95% of heterosexual men"

My initial reaction, I was a bit smug! (Yes, we keep boasting that it's better with a dyke! ). But then my second reaction was -- a THIRD of non-lesbian women don't usually orgasm. Despite years of feminism, books and videos and movies and more instructions on where to find the clitoris ,G-spot etc and what to do with them than you can shake a large vibrating dildo at. And yet a third still 'fail' (Note that I'm, not saying orgasming is/should be the goal of sex BTW).

Are non-gay men really that crap at sex? It would seem so!

Reading on, it says: "and a belief in some men that most women orgasm from penetrative sex." Whereas apparently "Few heterosexual women climaxed through penetrative sex alone".

So what is it, do the chaps not notice it, why is this false belief not questioned, or do their partners assure them it is all fine, or just act really well (whilst looking forward to a session with their rabbit once he has fallen asleep?).

I just find it depressing that after so many years of effort, women still do more of the household chores, still earn less, and it seems are less likely than the chaps to even have a decent shag after all that.......................

Because women deserve better!

The mind comes in to it more than many realise, if that organ is sorted then the rest follows. As much as I hate the whole men are like this and women are that I have had discussions with men about how they compartmentalise their thoughts and feelings, literally put them in a box and leave them there. I worked in a 95% male environment for years and my main hobby is dominated by males.

I don't think women are more emotional as such we just let ourselves feel them and if emotions are running high or something is off it will affect us.

They just seem so much more basic.

I orgasm from PIV sex all the time. Mind you, that wasn't true when I first had sex. But I've been doing it for a long time now. I also don't like oral sex. It's too superficial. Deep pressure is what works for me.

I think that women who don't masturbate are likely to find it difficult because they don't know their own bodies. I take responsibility for my own orgasm: I put myself in positions that I know work.

I am so very very glad that I read The Hite Report when I was at University. I think my sex life would have been so different.

LassWi and Rebel completely agree. There is no problem here even being one of the third quoted.

"I think that women who don't masturbate are likely to find it difficult because they don't know their own bodies. I take responsibility for my own orgasm:........"
Well, I'm frankly stunned by the number of posters on here who seem to think (despite the quoted stats as regards what men think they know about PIV and how many orgasm from it) that it is all either totally hunky-dory, or straight womens fault for not learning about their own bodies and not masturbating...................

Nope, nothing do with with chaps or the patriarchy at all, nothing to see laydees.............

Really??

You could argue it is women's fault for staying with sexually unsatisfying partners, I suppose...

I do think men get away with being bad in bed, though. There is a need to 'tune in' and be sensitive to your partner's experience that doesn't seem to come naturally to a lot of men.

I'll be honest I'd be totally dumbfounded if DH expected me to be responsible for his orgasm. I mean obviously I know how to do the sex, and some things that help him along, but in general I expect him to know what he's doing and what he feels like and vice versa.

You seem to be implying it's ok for a woman not to know her own body because...what, some amazing at sex lesbian will do the orgasm to her? Surely orgasms are too personal to work like that.

You could argue it is women's fault for staying with sexually unsatisfying partners, I suppose...

Yeah, but not really, because women are discouraged from learning about their own bodies by patriarchy, so ... if you don't even know you could have an orgasm, it is kinda hard to determine whether a partner is unsatisfying.

Of course, in the end, everything is women's fault, we should just have started a real, violent revolution against patriarchy ages ago, I guess.

Since we haven't, we are clearly responsible for our own oppression. Or something. Not that those who blame women are usually in favour of an armed feminist revolution.

The headlines on thisannoyed me because they talkedabout straight women having fewer orgasms. But I don't think the actual question was about the number of orgasms -it asked whether you normally orgasm during sex. But if women have multiple orgasms on some occasions and no orgasms on others, then they might average out better than men.

Yeah, but not really, because women are discouraged from learning about their own bodies by patriarchy, so ... if you don't even know you could have an orgasm

- I'm going to have to check back on some of those copies of Cosmo we have in the house - I'm sure very occasionally () they manage to sneak in the odd article about orgasms.

Nope, nothing do with with chaps or the patriarchy at all, nothing to see laydees....

What was your motive for this thread?

You have posted several times on other threads about how heterosexual women have their heads in the sand or are arrogant about not even considering why they are heterosexual or why they have not considered homosexuality.

Frankly I struggled to see any difference between what you said in a recent thread about sub/dom sex and what Reilly Dennis (?) said when they were demanding we should at least consider trans partners.

Completely agree with Batteries post.

Vestal

Women have been encouraged to learn about their bodies by the women's movement since the late 1960s

Yeah, but not really, because women are discouraged from learning about their own bodies by patriarchy, so ... if you don't even know you could have an orgasm, it is kinda hard to determine whether a partner is unsatisfying

As Cadnow said this is a staple feature of just about every women's magazine.

Women have been encouraged to learn about their bodies by the women's movement since the late 1960s

And this contradicts my statement that patriarchy does the opposite ... how, exactly?

The women's movement has also encouraged women to leave abusive men. That problem is still not solved.
I still don't believe that this is somehow women's fault.

Notyoda that might be true,but you are forgetting the (social,cultural and religious) influences that teach girls/women that:
-sex is a duty
-enjoying sex is dirty
-masturbation is bad
-sex is only for procreation purposes so oral,anal etc is not ok
-doing/having done to you certain sexual acts mean you are not wife material
-the man's pleasure is the priority
-no sex before marriage
-be polite,don't complain,don't make a fuss

And so on.

RebelRogue - where are you from, Gallifrey ? You want to get that TARDIS of yours seen to.

Surely those factors can't be that influencing though, since a fair majority of straight woman do manage to orgasm.

I wonder what proportion of straight women are in abusive relationships. Orgasms tend to be pretty thin on the ground there.

To those who are suspicious about my motives.....

Don't blame me, I just quoted the figures!

I'm just interested in why heterosexual sex has the largest difference between the partners (95% for males, 65% for females, 30% is a BIG difference!).

You could argue from the fact that since all of the male categories 'score' higher than all the female, that perhaps it is just 'easier' for chaps to orgasm. But then within a category, we have hetero/homo/bi chaps only a 7% spread, whereas amongst females we have a 21% spread between heterosexual women and lesbians.

Either way you look at it, heterosexual women seem to be significantly different. And I think the between partners spread surely says quite a bit! Okay, we have the one major, relevant biological difference that straight men have compared to lesbian women, and from these figures, the ole PIV seems to increase the chance of orgasm for the man, and significantly decrease it for the woman..............

Plus I think the range of answers to this thread says a lot as well............

I don't think you have a particular agenda, I do think that lesbians probably understand the female body very well. Plus there is no PIV going on, so there is more practice!

On the other hand, a lot of women like PIV sex without the necessity of an orgasm.

Personally I like both, for completely different reasons, but haven't managed both at the same time...

Men are always banging on about not being able to find the clitoris. Probably because the thing that makes them orgasm is very difficult to avoid. Plus, I'll say it again, clitoral stimulation is different for every woman and I think a bit of a fine art. I don't think there are many men who can't masturbate to orgasm, but there are quite a few women.

I love piv but I don't get enough clit. stimuLation to Orgasm. Oral for that. I try to avoid vibrator because I find it desensitises me. I think I still have childhood hangups about parents attitude towards sex and their ducked up relationship - sex is something rude, shouldn't talk about it and you should feel guilty about it. ....

I think that patriarchy does teach women that they have sex done to them, rather than being active assertive partners. The stereotypes of passivity and being ladylike don't encourage women to explore their sexual potential. If you have never brought yourself to orgasm you're not going to be able to show a partner what works for you.

My feminist understanding was that I could and should explore, that my body was full of sexual energy that I could enjoy. When I say I take responsibility for my own orgasm, I would like you to consider whether men do this (they do) and why it might be a good idea to give that responsibility to my partner (I don't).

As a result of my feminist understanding I became an expert in my own arousal. I had some duff partners in my youth but, all in.all, I have had multiple orgasms during sex far more times than even single orgasms, though ime that's kinda automatic for me in that once I reach that state it's very easy to just keep going. I think anatomy plays a part, but that's only a personal hypothesis.

Male orgasm is essential for the survival of the species. Female orgasm is not. Strong pair bonds are very important to the well-being of children, though, and I imagine female orgasm, or at least sexual contentment, plays a big part in that. This idea might be bollocks, but I find the idea interesting.

TTC can put a real downer on the female orgasm too I've heard. I know TTC for a long time has caused issues in the bedroom for quite a few friends of mine.

Plus I think the range of answers to this thread says a lot as well

It really is none of your business but like at least one other poster I have no difficulty achieving orgasm by piv. As others have said it requires getting to know what suits you. It is more satisfying than diy orgasms and far more satisfying than oral sex.

Still not sure why you are so interested in heterosexual sex given you don't practice it and in the past have been very dismissive about heterosexual women's preferences.

I wonder how many women really have never masterbated (or won't admit it) - i find that strange, i thought everyone did. Maybe the've always had partners who wanted a lot of sex. I was on my own for long periods so it was just down to me.

This link from Jezebel claims 92% of women masturbate but the figures I've seen in the past were much lower than that, Bambam.