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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

Original poster

Why do so many men turn bad...?

418 replies

Destinysdaughter · 27/01/2017 18:44

Was just thinking about this, May be simplistic but was wondering why so many men end up being rapists, paedophiles, DV abusers, stalkers etc?

Is it something in their family background, being a victim of abuse themselves, conditioning, or something else?

OP posts:
whoputthecatout · 08/02/2017 08:29

Jeez - I cannot take this man seriously. But he has made me laugh.

AssassinatedBeauty · 08/02/2017 08:30

Clearly many men are not violent and are in control of their sexual urges, and don't feel they have a right to buy women's bodies for their sexual gratification. Presumably this was achieved by their upbringing and socialisation. How can that be achieved for more men?

Slarti · 08/02/2017 08:30

if you look at racism carried out by predominantly European people over the last couple of hundred years I wonder if that is genetic of conditioning

Primarily racism is a function of power, or more specifically a mechanism by which those in power subjugate those without. The reason it is so heavily linked with Europeans is because colonial powers used racist pseudo-science to justify their subjugation and "civilising" of the Other, which was a convenient cover for stealing their land and resources as "benevolent parents" who could manage it better. Had Europeans not made certain discoveries and been technologically able to subjugate Others, racism may well not have emerged as a mechanism for it. So in short, its a social construct that we are socialised into.

Jmslvlc990 · 08/02/2017 08:42

Whoputthecatout
Yes indeed they are supreme multitasking. Building the infrastructure of civilisation, and the large hadron collider and getting to the moon and all whilst thinking about sex every 7 seconds!
Truly remarkable! :-)

makeourfuture · 08/02/2017 08:55

Why Trump, Brexit et al, have started a thunderous steamroll over modern international culture is that we have all gotten rather lazy in our thinking. The liberal left, and progressives etc who had made massive advances in cultural dominance over the last several decades have ended up behaving rather akin to the religous right before them. Rather than win the argument in the open marketplace of ideas we see accusations of "racist", "misogynist" or even just plain old "you're stupid" thrown about with such casual abandon it has actually served to dilute the meanings of those words, so now we live in a time where some very unsavory characters are getting large platforms, and they are much harder to challenge.

I am rebelling against this line of thought. Empiricism has worked so well as it starts from a known and then builds on that. As with say general relativity, there are times when foundations are shaken, but we progress by constantly investigating layers on top of the known.

It is no wonder then that feminists, for example, grow weary at having to go back and explain stuff - a constant rear-guard action. I feel the same about climate change, deniers are tedious and slow progress.

How far are we...and this is perhaps a problem in a democracy...expected to modify things so that everyone is comfortable? The world is round. Anyone who says otherwise is either ignorant, or is seeking to disrupt.

On a personal note, I am often upset by strong feminist language such as "old white men". I feel a visceral reaction too it. But I have taken the time to read what is meant by that. It would be tedious to require the whole "not all", "fabric of society" explanation. If someone is upset by ideas of patriarchy they should look into it, not expect a full explanation every time...and not use this lack of effort to justify voting for Trump.

makeourfuture · 08/02/2017 08:59

Had Europeans not made certain discoveries and been technologically able to subjugate Others, racism may well not have emerged as a mechanism for it.

Yes, and also, according to Weber, there developed an association between righteousness and accumulation of wealth. A Protestant work ethic completely at odds with actual biblical tenets.

whoputthecatout · 08/02/2017 09:02

Indeed Jms: lots of good things. Not to mention being responsible for most of the murders, wars and genocide in history. You do indeed have many talents.

Aren't you wasting valuable time on this thread, when you could be spreading your sperm?

Stand clear ladeez, Jms will be multi-tasking near you soon.....

Thanks for the laugh anyway. Work calls.

HelenDenver · 08/02/2017 09:04

catout!

Jmslvlc990 · 08/02/2017 09:11

Cutout
Yes, wars ,murders, genocide, democracy, law, medicine, science, technology etc...

M0stlyBowlingHedgehog · 08/02/2017 09:54

Our SGM buttons appear to be malfunctioning. I'm going to have to go for "hide thread".

Jmslvlc990 · 08/02/2017 09:57

Shame! The thread got a lot more interesting when you hit SGM!
Still - best to close a discussion down if you don't like the way it's going rather than engage with it!

DeviTheGaelet · 08/02/2017 10:57

Shame! The thread got a lot more interesting when you hit SGM!
What, you mean when other like minded men came to discuss with you? Please feel free to carry on

RebelRogue · 08/02/2017 15:50

Pages on...but can i take issue with the title? Men don't suddenly turn bad at age of 18,30,50 etc. Rather boys turn into bad men. How can we stop that?
It's actually a personal interest as i know very young boys(5-6) that already have an appalling and sometimes disturbing attitude to women and girls. I find this very worrying,it's all good debating why the men now are bad,but we have a new generation of future men going "bad" right before our eyes. And it's so fucking scary and frustrating!

HelenDenver · 08/02/2017 16:02

Good question RR

Seachangeshell · 08/02/2017 16:43

Great question rebel. I've got two young boys and I think about this too.
It's fine at the moment. We talk about things when my six year old brings them up. For example, he's got it into his head that he wants to get married one day. And he was saying you kiss your wife when you get married. We discussed how when you want to kiss someone you need to make sure they want to kiss you first! Quite funny really, he takes it very seriously.
we also talk about how girls and boys are equally good and he's really good at telling his friends they're wrong to say stuff like 'pink is a girl's colour '.
But I wonder about his teenage years in the future. The 'laddish ' culture we have is such a big influence on teenage boys. I hope he will keep his enlightened viewpoint, but he won't b that interested in discussing things with me then.

CaoNiMa · 09/02/2017 05:54

I can't believe so much time and energy has been given to Jms on this thread. It's like a microcosm of the patriarchy.

Jmslvlc990 · 09/02/2017 07:01

The amount of time and energy you spend fighting something is usually proportional to how much of a threat you think it is.
Then you either beat it, it beats you, or you run away. The latter has happened in this case.
This isn't a discussion forum it's a support group for the narrow minded and hard of thinking.
Eg. "The majority of people, including some feminists, think prostitution is ok." - Discuss
NO! It's wrong! Goodbye!
Great discussion ladies!

AssassinatedBeauty · 09/02/2017 07:52

Seachange I have two boys, very young at the moment, but I have similar thoughts to you. There have been a few rigid ideas about boys and girls picked up from nursery and now school which I've had to challenge but my eldest still is fairly well insulated from this kind of mindset. I'm hopeful about the older years, maybe naively!

Jmslvlc990 · 09/02/2017 08:11

Assassin it is possible. Both of my sons describe themselves as feminists. Interestingly neither of my daughters do!

Jmslvlc990 · 09/02/2017 08:14

Assuming you can hear me!
But rather Ironic and poetically beautifu if you can't! :-)

HelenDenver · 09/02/2017 09:08

Whatever you do in bringing up boys (I have them too), just don't involve Steve Biddulph!

AssassinatedBeauty · 09/02/2017 09:11

I'm wise to Steve Biddulph having fact checked the "testosterone surge" myth and reading more about him. It's not my cup of tea!

HelenDenver · 09/02/2017 09:14

Yup!

Still, keen to carry on the discussion on those lines, how can we best parent them. Heartbreaking share from Kate Smurthwaite today about porn and teenagers...

LauraBora79 · 09/02/2017 10:33

Because they can.

Jmslvlc990 · 09/02/2017 10:42

That implies that everyone wants to. But only those that can actually do.