Please help me to not hate men

[LastGirlOnTheLeft]

I have a wonderful dad and husband. I have sons, and I love them all to pieces. But I do believe that I am starting to hate men. When I read about their abuse of women and children and animals as well, I really feel HATE!!

I don't want to hate them. I don't want to be anything like those god awful woman haters, those soulless losers who obsess over women and who are lost, probably forever. I am NOT like them, because I do feel love and like for the men in my life. Just no other man.

Any advice?

Instead of hating 'men' you shoiukd hate abusers of people and animals, no matter what they have between their legs.

But it is men who are the vast majority of abusers!!!! So it is obviously gendered!!

Hating abuse is fine though.

I would say, focus on the people around you who you know are good people. Maybe do something new, a class or sport or volunteering where you meet more nice people.

No it isn't.

A man can abuse someone.
A man can kick a dog
A man can murder you.

Its not 'men' its a man.

What you're saying is a bit like me saying,
"I hate women because they only ever think about shoes"

Or,
"I hate all women because that one sick fucker who left her rottweiler to starve to death"
"I hate all women because of that one who worked in a nursery and allowed her husband to buses kids in her care"
"I hate every woman on the planet because one of them allowed that singer to abuse her kids"

Its nonsensical, unfair, sexist, ridiculous.

The vast majority of abusers might be men.

That doesn't mean that the vast majority of men are abusers.

Most of them are quite nice, actually.

Brokenbiscuit is absolutely right. These two things are very different but are so often confused (in many different scenarios not just this one).

If 99% of cases of tintin's disease in children (that's a made up disease - i hope) have a red rash does that mean that 99% of children with a red rash have tintin's disease? No, of course it doesn't and hopefully it's quite clear to see why not in that example.

Being a man doesn't make you an abuser. Yes, maybe the are reasons why abusers are more men but that doesn't mean all men should be hated. As others have said, focus your hate on the abusers

Op

There was a long and thoughtful thread on this a few months ago. I'm going to look for it.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/2685909-Im-starting-to-hate-men

As others have said, focus your hate on the abusers
Better that than a generalised hate, but maybe better yet would be if you could try to direct your emotions towards some positive purpose?

But it is men who are the vast majority of abusers!!!! So it is obviously gendered!!

And is it the vast majority of men who are abusers?

You should remind yourself that women abuse animals and children too. Why do you just associate those things with men? Certain forms of abuse like rape are more common to men, but overall people are people.

I try and judge people as individuals rather than representatives of a class.

LastGirlOnTheLeft

I know what you mean. I too have a husband and sons whom I love profoundly.

Personally, I don't think it's about hating all men, or even just hating the abusers. We all know that the vast majority of men are not abusive.

However once I started to read more about feminism and the statistics concerning abuse, I had something of a sea change in my outlook.

You suddenly realise that what you had taken for granted because 'that's the way things are' takes on a slightly different colour when viewed through the lens of newly acquired knowledge.

I am seeing things going on all around me which didn't bother me before because it was just part of my life, which I now see as 'casual sexism'. All sorts of things like films, attitudes, assumptions.

I'm guessing people who were raised as feminists have come to terms with all this. For me it's been a bit of an eye-opener. It's uncomfortable.

But you have to be realistic. If most women aren't feminists, you can understand how men remain entrenched in some of their views.

I have started to (stealthily) question people, situations, even my own sons and husband.

Sometimes it's quite satisfying, because most of the men I know don't think they are sexist - they're bright, intelligent people. So when I take a stand, there is often a bit of a pause.

Both women and men abuse. It's about the individual not the gender and the overwhelming majority of men are good, kind decent people, it's not like they are all abusers. So I think uour position is extreme. It's too much of a generalisation. It also fails to see the good in so many people.

What's causing you to feel this way?

Both men and women abuse is a stupid, deeply disingenuous argument. Women abuse on nothing like the scale that men do. Women do it too just doesn't work as an argument here because women don't, the statistics of women's abuse show that it's a vanishingly small issue.

Men, however, legitimise abuse of women across societies, they extract unpaid labour from women on which their version of what society depends and what is the reward for women? Sexual, financial and social abuse hidden, mocked and shrugged at.

And if men in general wanted the world to be fair for women, they're in the position to do it. But they don't. They don't even want it discussed. So there's reason enough to feel a generalised contempt for men in general.

Has something happened that has caused you to feel this way OP?

Obviously, there are very general patterns of male and female behaviour. But when men and women are understood as homogenous groups it gets a bit problematic.

I am not against feminism because feminists do enormous good countering the oppression of women. However I am suspicious on any form of class politics which sees people as groups rather than individuals and opposes one group with a feared other. That isn't healthy for society imo. At the moment many terrorist attacks are perpetrated by people who call themselves Muslims. But you would not say you hate all Muslims on that basis would you?

If we are going to talk in generalities, men and women tend to do bad things in different ways. Men commit more violent and sexual abuse while women tend to abuse emotionally and psychologically. But even that's only generally speaking. A friend of mine who works in child protection says the number of children being sexually abused by women is far higher than we realise. It's just that it isn't reported as much and often cases don't get to court.

So people are people really - there are just very general patterns of behaviour within different groups.

MrsDustyBusty I don't think it's that simple.

Thank you dusty.
It's not helpful at all to the OP to say "people abuse".
If you put a woman in a room with 100 men and 100 women, statistically 5 men would be rapists and no women.
I think "hate" is a strong term but I think many women are wary of/distrustful of men and for good reason.

I am not against feminism because feminists do enormous good countering the oppression of women. However I am suspicious on any form of class politics which sees people as groups rather than individuals and opposes one group with a feared other.

Yes - I'm a feminist but while some of the class analysis stuff may be useful theoretically and in thinking about how inequalities and injustices arise and how to counter them, its not a good thing if that translates into tribalism. Pitting two groups against each other can only be destructive.

Being more wary isn't the same thing as hating though, is it Devi? I'm wary of any dog I don't know, but most of them are delightful.

Yeah exactly errol. I would like to know what last means. Do you hate what they do? Are you wary? Or do you actually hate men?

Are women wary of men ? I'm not. I'd be very surprised if my female friends have a view of life that they need to be wary of all men until they prove otherwise.

I'm not wary of dogs either.

Some women are wary of men Lass, and I don't think it's unreasonable for them to be so.

On a personal level of course but the phrase "women as a class" is used constantly on here.

"Woman as a class" are/ should be wary of men?

I'm not wary of dogs or horses. Spent all my childhood around them- the vast majority of them are wonderful. I'm not wary of horses because one once threw me. I am wary of bulls; anyone being around stock is as they are all potentially dangerous.

I don't know enough about class analysis tbh. I think, given the historic and current treatment of women by men, then "women as a class should be wary of men as a class" is a reasonable statement, perhaps. Unless that's not how class analysis should be used?

I'm wary of dogs, horses and cows/bulls (having also grown up around them and been a horse rider), because they are potentially dangerous being bigger, stronger, less predictable etc etc. Wary doesn't mean scared or that I hate them, though.

This type of thinking so pisses me off.....

So you don't hate all women even though mothers have had their children taken away from them due to neglect or abuse?

You don't hate all women even though girls/ women have bullied other people until that person commits suicide?

You don't hate all women even though females beat up/ mentally abuse their partners?

So you don't hate all women even though there are youtube videos showing girls killing animals for their own amusement?

I'm wary of a "Beware of the dog" sign but I'm not wary of dogs. Kind of says a lot when you think about it.