I'm starting to hate men

[Mamaka]

I posted this on relationships but didn't get any response:

I've noticed recently that I've become more and more anti men - I think since having my first child. So many factors that I could mention and probably many deep rooted issues contributing to this but the long and short of it is why do women have to suffer and sacrifice at every turn?!

I don't really want to feel like this. I have a son who I want to bring up/am bringing up to be a feminist but I'm worried about how my hateful feelings towards men are going to rub off on my dc.

I suppose I am asking if there is a way I can combat these feelings and start to feel more positively towards them.

[hownottofuckup]

Oh I just answered on your other thread!

[VestalVirgin]

I suppose I am asking if there is a way I can combat these feelings and start to feel more positively towards them.

Quit reading newspapers. Read fantasy novels instead. Pratchett has some positive male characters. Tolkien, too. (Though perhaps Tolkien perhaps is not the best author if you don't like women suffering and sacrificing)
Patricia Briggs has very lovable male characters, but considering that she's a woman, they are, perhaps, not entirely realistic.

If you have a male partner who contributes to your hate of men, get rid of him.

[TeiTetua]

Tolkien?? One warrior princess, one elvish queen, and Lobelia Sackville-Baggins, and you're about done with the female characters. Oh yes, and a big nasty spider. Meanwhile the heroes and villains are the way they've always been.

I would also like to ask about the wee lad's father. At least he ought to be working to make sure his son doesn't grow up into self-hate.

[StrawberrytallCake]

Vestal are you seriously suggesting op gives up the news in favour of fiction to help her like men more? 😂😂😂

Op I think you need to work out where these feelings come from.

[wantingresults]

It's not entirely irrational to hate men when living in a patriarchy if you've been dealt a seriously shitty hand. If your hate comes from genuinely terribly experiences at the hands of men it's maybe an idea to channel it into activism and fighting to change things on the one hand and trying to find some positive experiences with men on the other hand?

I've had some terrible experiences with men myself, and many that aren't really terrible but were nevertheless unfair and sexist. Male entitlement etc. But I've also been lucky to have met a handful of really wonderful men too and whenever life in this society is feeling particularly unfair I think of them and I tell myself that if I've met some good ones so far there will hopefully be a few more good ones in my future.

Or maybe your experiences are worth exploring with with a therapist?

[Missyaggravation]

I don't know, it is hard. I see societal attitudes rubbing off on my sons and trying to counter them sometimes feels like pissing in the wind.

[Mamaka]

Thank you for the replies! I fell asleep last night just after I'd posted.

Yes one abusive father and one entitled husband and a few other silly sexist men around me are seriously clouding my view. I don't really have good male friends to balance it out and even my female friends have quite traditional mindsets although they would see themselves as progressive (think hippy sahm types who think women create a "village" while men hunt and gather )

Add a few birth injuries in and a gynaecologist telling me to have more sex to help the birth injuries and I'm left feeling very angry.

I seem to be surrounded by silliness!

[StrawberrytallCake]

I really identify with your last post Mamaka I was in an abusive relationship, have had countless gynae problems and was told by a dr to just start having sex even if I don't feel like it, because eventually it will change.

I wouldn't describe my friends as traditional, more the kind of people who think women can't be funny, male opinions are held in higher regard and housework is womens work.

It's just made me distance myself from those people and instead of hating men I've put more energy into improving myself, finding like-minded people and reading some feminist literature. You can't always change the way people think but you can make life more equal for yourself.

[PinkyofPie]

This may not be helpful but you probably hate men because men can be quite hateful creatures. They contribute so much of the evil to the world and I've only ever met a handful that care truly about females and their rights.

I am up for living in a women only village

[amarmai]

I had to stop reading newspapers as I was getting depressed reading what happens to women. So I think your reaction is healthier as you hate the men who hate women. It took me a while to get to that point, so good on you if you skipped the depression.

[IHateDoors]

I sympathise with your feelings Mamaka and I, unfortunately, agree with what Pinky has said. So many men pay lip service to feminism and pretend to care about the rights and plights of women across the world but really they don't give two hoots.

I listened to two of the partners at work the other day discussing how much things had changed and women were totally equal now because there is a woman prime minister. The mind boggles at a statement like that. I mean, where do you even start?

All the little things feel like they have built up for me into a big seething pile of resentment and anger, the everyday sexism, the objectification, the over sexualisation of our girls, the silencing of WAG and the constant relentless excusing of male behaviour. It's tiresome and I understand why you feel the way you do. I have decided to try and do more, be more active, however I can.

[VestalVirgin]

I am up for living in a women only village

We should start one. Someone should set up a crowdfunding project for this. I have met so many women who have stated they would be up for it, that I think such a project could be really successful.

(One idea was to buy one of the many little Scottish islands.)

[IHateDoors]

Count me in for the women only village.

[IHateDoors]

Count me in for the women only village.

[Mamaka]

I'm so glad I posted on here because I also posted this thread on relationships and a couple of the comments about me being prejudiced and irrational, one even alluding to his physically abusive mother (I presume trying to draw a comparison) had me gobsmacked.

[Mamaka]

Strawberry tall cake - please can you point me in the direction of some feminist literature? Easygoing to start me off please.

[Toocold]

Can I give a counter balance? My brother, my husband and my son despise all things none equal, though in my brothers case this is largely down to the sexist shite my mum put up with, with lots of brothers so I guess it isn't that straight forward, but I have never heard my husband utter a sexist comment or act in a way that would be construed as such. My son is eight and well aware that both him and his sister should be equal as is she. I think it would help if the suffragettes were studied at school, in fact the lack of women being studied in history makes me really mad but I'm trying to say is there are men out there that don't objective women, don't assault women and treat them as equals, having said that my dad is still a work in progress but he gets challenged at every corner by us

[StrawberrytallCake]

Well, Germaine Greer did a talk at my senior school and I barely paid attention to it - so I thought I would start there. I have the female eunuch (1970s) and the more up to date - the whole woman. I'm starting with those in sequence so I can understand her progress and views - not so that I can take them on but so that I can decide what I do and do not agree with. I don't think it necessary to read feminist books and agree with everything.

I do believe some male transsexuals taking over female spaces and trying to claim feminism as their own is a worrying trend (a GG opinion) and don't like how she was taken off the bill to speak at some univerisities. Therefore I am starting at that point but moving on from that I will go where the wind takes me, and probably have a little look on here for recommendations.

Hope I didn't go totally off point and still and because I feel like I understand how you came to this viewpoint.

Fwiw I wouldn't want to live in a female only village, I think men can be pretty cool. What saved me was my two best friends when I grew up were male non sexual relationships and they have lasted far better than my female relationships unfortunately.

[Lorelei76]

Count me in for the women only village too please.

OP it sounds as if you know some people of both sexes who are really a century behind. I know men who are the SAHD, I know of relationships where they do more housework etc. I certain,y don't relate to the idea that the woman must always suffer and coming on MN was a shock.

I'm sure if you met some decent blokes you'd be happy to be friends with them.

[Grimarse]

There is another thread on the Fwr front page, criticising Andrea Leadsom because she said, 'I'm not a feminist because I don't hate men.'

One quote from that thread reads as follows - Man-haters is such a lazy and stupid term to use about feminists..... Feminists don't hate men, we hate arseholes....

So, there does seem to be a bit of a clash. Is it okay for some feminists to hate men, based on their personal experiences?

[Obliviated]

I struggle to not hate all men. I find it very difficult though.

[StrawberrytallCake]

Experiences as a person are what leads people to hate men. Feminism does not lead women to hate men and is not solely for women who hate men.......in my opinion. Feminism can help women understand the inequality they have been facing which can lead to understanding of why negative feelings towards men have occurred. This may lead to change and rectification of inequality.

It's ok for people to feel however they like.... i think your question is one that asks is one thing related to another unrelated thing? but feminism (again imo) is a discussion of equality and understanding of the complexities of being a woman in a misogynistic world.

[WhingySquirrel]

I am the same-not just down to my own experiences but those of friends, family members, acquaintances-everyone I know.. It's natural to focus on the man ones and ignore the good and when I think about it I DO know some lovely men (and some horrible women, for that matter!) but even if I think deeply, It's nowhere near as many. I too wish I didn't have this view but I agree, in my case it isn't irrational and isn't withot valid basis. In a nutshell, generally men on the whole make me feel sick and full of hatred toward them.

[WilLiAmHerschel]

So, there does seem to be a bit of a clash. Is it okay for some feminists to hate men, based on their personal experiences?

Grimarse, feminists don't have a hive mind. We're quite a large group. I have a male dp who I love and some male friends (and two brothers who I tolerate) but my experience of men has been overwhelmingly negative. I completely understand "man -hating".

To be honest, I think it is entirely logical. So many men seem to hate women. And they act on it. Women who hate men tend to want to limit their contact with them. Men who hate women seem to want us to suffer.

[VestalVirgin]

Grimarse, feminists don't have a hive mind.

This. While it is entirely logical to hate men, most feminists don't.

However, I have noticed that many men proudly declare themselves assholes and state that feminists "hate men" because they "want to change them", and apparently, those men like being assholes.

Not sure it is worth my time to try to convince any man that feminists are not a hivemind who hates him.

In the end, I don't really care if men's feelings are hurt because they mistakenly believe that feminists hate them.