Please help me to not hate men

[LastGirlOnTheLeft]

I have a wonderful dad and husband. I have sons, and I love them all to pieces. But I do believe that I am starting to hate men. When I read about their abuse of women and children and animals as well, I really feel HATE!!

I don't want to hate them. I don't want to be anything like those god awful woman haters, those soulless losers who obsess over women and who are lost, probably forever. I am NOT like them, because I do feel love and like for the men in my life. Just no other man.

Any advice?

I can keep going for another 792 if you like with my 'sanctimonious misdirection onto victims' if you like. I can keep going for three times that. Four times that.

You said there are ABUSED CHILDREN WHO DO NOT MATTER! You said that. You own it. We could have been talking about perpetrators - about the majority of men who abuse - but you said that 1% or whatever it is of children should have no representation. You do not get to say that on a public forum and pass the buck.

Own that.

And you brought your kids into it AND the emotive language. Who was first to mention your lovely sons? I didn't know they existed til you brought it up and I still couldn't care less about them.

My point is I was talking about educating children starting with my own, I wasn't saying 'oh my poor boys' blah blah

In fact I think I raised I would view them as having an inherent responsibility to be aware of their advantages.

So you are comfortable making a point about women's disadvantages but utterly exploiting them when it suits you? If that is the case you are in no position in my view to comment on discriminate when you perpetuate it when convenient.

'Your view' of what I can comment on and when is of literally no relevance.

And your point had fuck all to do with 'starting education with your own'. Your words were "Well as the mother of two lovely boys I'd be horrified if they brought home a girl who felt they had an additional duty to 'prove' themselves purely by virtue of gender." A direct attempt to deny the experiences of women as an oppressed class, because you happen to like your kids.

Calm down, dear, you're clearly getting too emotional to be rational.

I commented repeatedly on making them aware of societal issues, if you somehow missed that then I'm unsure how given you appear to be so skilled at copy and paste.

I love the shutting down of your use of misogynistic language and stereotypes with 'I don't care what you think' always a good indication your argument has tripped you and left you flat on your face.

My point about my kids when I said that is if a woman were to discriminate against them based on sex it remains discrimination, really rather simple although again you have managed to misinterpret it rather beautifully.

As we've reached the point of 'your opinion doesn't matter' I think it's time to bow out.

'Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.'

My point about my kids when I said that is if a woman were to discriminate against them based on sex it remains discrimination.

Discrimination of women for being women = sexism, awful terrible etc etc.

Discrimination of men for being men = perfectly rational, logical and defensible feminist position.

This is such depressing bullshit. Next time someone gets accused of tarring feminists with the man hater brush - they can be directed here and see for themselves a bunch of feminists, who we are to believe would like a fairer society, encouraging a woman to hate all men. Fucking unbelievable.

It does not 'remain discrimination'. And I did read the bit about you 'making them aware of societal issues' but I frankly don't believe you because you appear to have zero grasp of them yourself. Don't really know what the fuck you're on about re the cut and paste thing.

I wish men's discriminated against women limited itself to men being cautious to trust women.

I'd give anything to live in a world where men discriminated against women so tenderly as to only be suspicious of them until they got to know her better.

You cannot be sexist towards men. Much like a black person cannot be racist towards a white person.

I'd give anything to live in a world where men discriminated against women so tenderly as to only be suspicious of them until they got to know her better.

Yep, if only women faced the same discrimination from men that men theoretically face from women.

From the deeply misogynistic CAB -

Sex discrimination is when you are treated unfairly either because you are a man or because you are a woman.

However thankfully we are all indebted to Bibblewanda for informing us that it is not possible to treat a man unfairly because he is a man.

Yep, if only women faced the same discrimination from men that men theoretically face from women

Nice try - but this isn't about that, it's about whether you hate all men, but it seems you do, I actually pity you but wish you wouldn't pretend that this is feminism.

You're just the sort of "feminists" the great Doris Lessing had in mind when she said ""It is time we began to ask who are these women who continually rubbish men. The most stupid, ill-educated and nasty woman can rubbish the nicest, kindest and most intelligent man and no one protests"

Brilliantly put Calamity

If we all follow this approach the end seems so far from the hope of a fair society.

Let's hate anyone who has an advantage over us rather than try to work together for a better world. Endorsing and accepting hate cannot ever lead to what feminism aimed for.

You said there are ABUSED CHILDREN WHO DO NOT MATTER! You said that. You own it. We could have been talking about perpetrators - about the majority of men who abuse - but you said that 1% or whatever it is of children should have no representation. You do not get to say that on a public forum and pass the buck.

I've just reread the whole thread and sillage said nothing like that. She said 99% of sex offenders are men.
It's strange that when we (because you did the same to me) have stats you respond with "are you saying women can't be sex offenders? You don't care about abused children".
You need to read what people actually SAY.
What do you think we should do about the 99% of rapists that are male?

Women hating men = women don't trust men until they get to know them better.

Men hating women = rape, murder, prostitution, child marriage, forced sterilizations, employment inequality, legal inequality, medical inequality, political exclusion, educational exclusion, scientific exclusion, dehumanization, infantilization, reproductive exploitation, sexual exploitation, domestic labor exploitation...

But do keep moaning about how women not trusting men is just like male violence in every way. So balanced and insightful.

It really isn't that simple though is it.

The vast majority of FGM is carried out by women on women. Mother's on daughters. Now we all realised the entrenched misogyny that causes this to happen, the societal pressures that make this horror seem like the only option, but it is still carried out and enforced by women.

Can some men not be forced into situations they dislike by the pressures of society?

Yes, of course they can.

Devi, this is what Sillage said:

'the women who spoke up were correct'. Go back to page 3 of the thread.

It's pretty unambiguous. Sillage thinks women were right to protest against a conference on child sex abuse.

Stop making excuses.

This part of your sentence, "but it is still carried out and enforced by women." contradicts this part of your sentence, "we all realised the entrenched misogyny that causes this to happen, the societal pressures that make this horror seem like the only option"

Men make the choices that prevent women from taking care of themselves, then mothers make the most rational decisions they can make under those grotesque conditions. You're wrong to say mothers "enforced" genital mutilation right after acknowledging how mothers are being forced by misogynistic men to carry out their demand.

I think the 99% of rapists who are male should be banged up and treated like pariahs. Have I said anything to suggest otherwise?

The difference between Sillage and I is that I think 100% of sexual assailants should be treated like this and all their victims treated with equal compassion.

Oh thank god devi

I thought i was going to have to re read the whole thread to find where sillage said You said there are ABUSED CHILDREN WHO DO NOT MATTER! You said that.

For what its worth i found the Independent article interesting

But i get a bit cheesed off when people misrepresent other posts

As i say, very good points in the acticle regarding reporting

So those women were correct to protest against the conference, but that in no way implies those victims should be taken less seriously? OK.

What does it imply then?

When you respond to my opinion with 'you squeal oh my lovely sons' rather than being able to respond logically you've perpetuated sexism right there

You've reduced my completely calm discussion to an emotive standpoint with the personalising of my children and used 'squeal' the kind of derogatory term used when women express a standpoint

I agree. HackAttack - rather breathtaking double standard there.