Transgender Documentary on BBC2 Thursday 2100 "Transgender Kids: Who Knows best?"

[ItsAllGoingToBeFine]

Looks like an interesting watch, that does not just accept the trans children or they will kill themselves rhetoric. I just hope the BBC actually do show it and aren't bullied into not showing it.

www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b088kxbw

The blurb:

Around the world there has been a huge increase in the number of children being referred to gender clinics - boys saying they want to be girls and vice versa. Increasingly, parents are encouraged to adopt a 'gender affirmative' approach - fully supporting their children's change of identity. But is this approach right?

In this challenging documentary, BBC Two's award-winning This World strand travels to Canada, where one of the world's leading experts in childhood gender dysphoria (the condition where children are unhappy with their biological sex) lost his job for challenging the new orthodoxy that children know best. Speaking on TV for the first time since his clinic was closed, Dr Kenneth Zucker believes he is a victim of the politicisation of transgender issues. The film presents evidence that most children with gender dysphoria eventually overcome the feelings without transitioning and questions the science behind the idea that a boy could somehow be born with a 'female brain' or vice versa. It also features 'Lou' - who was born female and had a double mastectomy as part of transitioning to a man. She now says it is a decision that 'haunts' her and feels that her gender dysphoria should have been treated as a mental health issue.

Maybe I too was a bit harsh. It got better as the programme went on.
Right from the off they presented Zucker as the man who had lost his job through actually having outdated and awful old fashioned ideas. But I found him the most rational and convincing. It IS a complex issue.

And the trans man dismissing the minority, which he IS, didn't do himself any favours.

Strange that the new chief exec commented without even having watched the programme! ooopps!

When the young girl, with the American dad who got the photos developed, said she felt better when she started doing male things like soccer and baseball, my heart sank. Is that ALL it was? Too simplistic! Why wasn't that possible? She hasn't grown up in THe dark ages, it was only a few years ago. Kids do all sorts of activities these days that are more gender irrelevant - loads of girls playing football etc - we have got better recently.

Yes, some/most grow out of it/change. Realise that they actually don't want to change gender. A 3 or 4 year old can't possibly comprehend what having that final surgery - penis removal for e.g., is going to do to them. They STILL might find that they don't feel right and still don't fit in.

I don't know, but I Imagine:

I would imagine it doesn't solve everything. You still wouldn't quite fit in, you wouldn't be 'normal' or 'neuro typical'.
You might decide you are gay, many do. Those few that still want surgery, of courses they should have it.
I suspect they'll still need a lot of counselling and support afterwards.

Maybe this programme at least bought all of this into discussion. Which can only be good.

I notice Gina Rippon is pro vice chancellor at Aston University. I'm thinking of sending a small donation to them stating that it is in support of her work debunking myths around male/female brains.

18 just seems so young to be so sure you want suvh drastic sirgery. I think that actually shows how still immature many are. And so many transfolk so eager to back them up saying they are adults and know what they want. I wonder how many really regret it.

In many ways I can understand why some male children are attracted to the idea of being a girl. They may feel girls have a kinder, more caring lifestyle and don't have to be "strong" and fight - sometimes literally - to get what they want. On one of these threads earlier in the year someone posted this and I feel it sums it up very well:

I can understand "want to be treated the way I see girls getting treated / think I would enjoy wearing the clothes/ adopting the roles / having the choices that I see girls in my culture having"

But of course that isn't feeling like a girl. It isn't being a girl. It's a desire for a different way of life. It isn't sharing a feeling in common with girls. There isn't a mindset common to girls, is there? There is no feeling like a girl.

What an excellent idea, indominus.

I have a friend whose daughter seems to have been sucked into trans through her group at school. Mother doesn't think she's trans at all and never showed any sign - just sucked in bu her boyfriend (now a girl) and the trans community. changed mame and planning top durgery at 18.

said she felt better when she started doing male things like soccer and baseball, my heart sank. Is that ALL it was? Too simplistic
I don't think that was all it was. She talked about comorbid symptoms like anxiety and also about joining the girls baseball team and finding somewhere she fitted in. I think she possibly had a MH condition that she started being treated for and that and social acceptance as she was sorted the dysphoria.
Rather than "I feel like a misfit - girls don't like me. I know, I must be a boy really"

I watched the first half of the programme with near outrage waiting for the gender critical stuff to start but now I think it was really clever. They've dedicated at least half of the time to the pro-side but they really shown how creepy it can be (Dr Spack and those summer camps!) and essentially given them enough rope to hang themselves whilst still being sympathetic.

I'm cross about Zucker being sacked too. He seemed very balanced in his approach and to have genuinely helped that girl and her family, and the little boy and his family.
Whereas the dad with the teen who transitioned seemed off. All that stuff about "running like a girl", "using hands like a girl". It was sad.

I think it was puberty too, which is one reason why blockers are so dangerous.
We know that puberty has something to do with brain development but we don't know enough to know what the consequences for overall development of artificially stopping puberty are. These kids are being experimented on.

On the other hand you really wouldn't tell the 17 year old was trans so if a child is going to end up transitioning the blockers contribute to the best end result. But then that researcher said there was no way to identify persisters vs desisters

I thought it got better as it moved into the second half too. I'm wondering if some of the connections being made here on the thread by folks who were already aware and gender critical will have been picked up more widely though. Like the little boy who says he's a girl because he didn't like boys games, clothes and hairstyles, or the older girl who felt better when she could play 'boys' sports. There's a thread elsewhere re a transgirl at guides and really the only people on it who seem to get the issue are names I know from FWR.

Talking about this at 8.40 on bbc news.

BBC news very pro trans. Mermaid lot.

Susie green is on there

Canadian tw on BBC just now trashing Zucker. Very one-sided. Did they feel the need to do this after the grief the TRA gave them for the doc?

Wow. The woman with the blonde bob is a dangerous zealot. She's telling people (and not mincing her words) that their kids will die if they don't trans them, campaigning (it seems from a place of strength and power) to prevent parents from being able to protect their children.

The parents who they interviewed who worked with Zucker came across so well, they were a real, balancing, sensible voice amongst some really scary stuff.

I heard the tw talking before I knew it was on and thought "that sounds like a man putting on womanvoice". Ha.

I think, sadly, that things will only change when these children caught in this clusterfuck grow up and sue the asses of some of these people. And Mermaid better start saving now because this will cost them dearly in the future.

Well that (BBC news) was a total hatchet job. Why the talk about abusive practices when that has nothing to do with Zucker?

Cheri DiNovo - had to skip back and forth to find her name.

She's also a priest.

.

Yes wasn't there a clip of her in her church? Saying "freaking interesting". You can't say "freaking" at the pulpit!

CharlieSierra

I am on the other thread about the transgirl going to girl guides. It was the thread about the IOC guidelines that first alerted me to the trans issue. The same thread made me take another look at the FWR boards, as I had found them intimidating and largely incomprehensible. They are now my 'go to' section and I have learnt a hell of a lot about feminism, which had simply passed me by. I know it's trite, but I did feel as though the scales had suddenly fallen.

So it was quite shocking to see the posts from people on the girl guide board. I do think it takes something of a lightbulb moment if you haven't been raised with feminism to really see the inequality between men and women. The trans issue is turning that light bulb on for many people.