Transgender Documentary on BBC2 Thursday 2100 "Transgender Kids: Who Knows best?"

[ItsAllGoingToBeFine]

Looks like an interesting watch, that does not just accept the trans children or they will kill themselves rhetoric. I just hope the BBC actually do show it and aren't bullied into not showing it.

www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b088kxbw

The blurb:

Around the world there has been a huge increase in the number of children being referred to gender clinics - boys saying they want to be girls and vice versa. Increasingly, parents are encouraged to adopt a 'gender affirmative' approach - fully supporting their children's change of identity. But is this approach right?

In this challenging documentary, BBC Two's award-winning This World strand travels to Canada, where one of the world's leading experts in childhood gender dysphoria (the condition where children are unhappy with their biological sex) lost his job for challenging the new orthodoxy that children know best. Speaking on TV for the first time since his clinic was closed, Dr Kenneth Zucker believes he is a victim of the politicisation of transgender issues. The film presents evidence that most children with gender dysphoria eventually overcome the feelings without transitioning and questions the science behind the idea that a boy could somehow be born with a 'female brain' or vice versa. It also features 'Lou' - who was born female and had a double mastectomy as part of transitioning to a man. She now says it is a decision that 'haunts' her and feels that her gender dysphoria should have been treated as a mental health issue.

I'm quite new to all this and I've mostly been following from a distance but I thought it was a balanced programme. I found this review to be good.

abutterflysdiary.wordpress.com/2017/01/16/transgender-kids-who-knows-best-thoughts-on-bbc2s-this-world-programme/

It's not a problem I personally face and hopefully I never will, it must be tough for parents who are told their kid will commit suicide if they don't support him/her. Talk about emotional abuse!

"....Meanwhile, I am also tired of transactivists on twitter telling lesbians that they are self-hating trans men."
Seen that too. There is just going to be animosity when you have former lesbians who via trans then get to be 'normal' straight men (thinking Chaz Bono and the whole heterosexual dynamic quotes). Or when straight folk trans and then try and insert themselves into the gay community (okay, unintended double entendre, but its does happen). The LGB just doesn't FIT with the T (despite gay orgs needing a new reason for existing now the gay marriage fight has been mostly won, and T being the sexy new civil rights topic.).

Reading the linked article, the issue for me is that we are being forced to the position where having a gender identity is required to be seen to be innate and unchangeable for even very young kids. Where the line becomes about not questioning or exploring gender and identity, or treating gender dysphoria, but just affirming gender identity and prepping kids for transition. But underlying it all is this belief in gender identity, that is the scary old religion here appearing in the new trans clothes.

I think if my child were presenting with GID I would want therapy that explored over time, why that was, what that meant to them, how best they could live happily, and how others could work to accept their non-conformity. I'd be hoping for an outcome where my child, felt accepted and at ease in the way they wanted to live, without ultimately feeling they needed to medically alter their healthy body.

You wouldn't get this. You would get the standard minimum amount of NHS counselling in your area, usually between 6 and 12 hours. You would get put onto the waiting list for the clinic. You would then get a few sessions there and have to make a choice whether to get blockers for your child and carry on with some counselling or get completely dropped with no help.

That's the reality of what we are faced with.

CoolJazz PencilsInSpace's post yesterday at 15.52 has a link to a long article about Dr Zucker which covers the case of the boy you're talking about. It puts a different perspective on it from the one you've quoted.

I am horrified by the recent statement by the RCGP on the matter. It's another thread on Feminism Chat. My opinion will count for little, but I've been wondering if they might be interested by your perspective, Fish. Perhaps if you read it you could send them some feedback on what life as you and your child are having to navigate it is like?

I haven't seen the statement or seen the thread Prawn I'll go look now.

It's here link. Sorry, should have provided it in my original post.

Thanks Prawn

Cool, I would like ongoing support, not to be pushed into an all or nothing scenario. I'm lucky that my child hasn't self harmed or had suicidal thoughts, I can only imagine that had been the case I may well have been so desperate for support that blockers would have been the only option.

I would also like support from the school, as it is they can't really support my child's needs as they now have an agenda to push where they have to be inclusive regardless of the best interests of my child and the other children in the school.

It seems that everyone now has to be 100% inclusive of trans people, which sounds great in theory, in reality it is causing a lot of trouble and is detrimental to everyone.

I have now managed to get myself into a position to pay for an hours counselling a week for my child, finding a counsellor is proving very difficult though because everyone I meet on a professional level (including the NHS counsellors and the clinic staff) are supportive to the point of encouraging.

The RCGP are about as representative of ordinary GPs as any political party is of the beliefs of all the citizens of the country. Increasing numbers of GPs are resigning their membership precisely because of their stupid, unthinking pronouncements on all sorts of things. I have no direct experience of GID children or adults professionally but I think many GPs would be very worried about the idea of our patients being given puberty blockers etc without regard for the long term effects.
Cool's perspective on thinking of gender identity in the wider context of personality is interesting. Children, by definition, cannot be diagnosed with a personality disorder precisely because their personality is not fully formed until adulthood. For me that makes the current gender affirmative approach completely at odds with the management of other psychological problems.

You've probably thought of all the angles but I wonder whether looking for a feminist leaning counsellor might help regardless of the sex of your DC. I know Gender Critical Dad, the blogger, says that feminist analysis is the only thing that made sense of what was going on. Also you could try asking for help on 4thwavenow or the gender critical health professionals website.

The RCGP document isn't very long but it doesn't address problems like yours and your DC at all. They ought to know how bleak it is struggling alone and that this is the position for any parent who won't follow the Mermaids line.

GPs are very reasonable and approachable as a group (I used to work with them) and I think the College might be interested in feedback.

@fish

Have you watched any of Magdalen Berns' videos on YouTube? They might make you smile!

fish have you thought about seeing a clinical psychologist in private practice? My experience is clinical psychologists have a wider knowledge of the causes of issues and techniques that work than counsellors.

I'm still RTFT so maybe this has already come up, but why does nobody ever point out how the trans mob talk about mental illness in such a stigmatising way? 25% of the population experiences it, yet we don't go around insisting people call themselves 'cis-mental' (sorry I can't think what the equivalent would be). It's as if being mentally ill is 'the worst thing ever' and how dare you even suggest such a thing! But the key difference is that to be homosexual you don't need medical intervention, or different clothes or other external representations of self. To change gender, you do (unless you're Danielle Muscato).

Most people accept that things you require medical intervention for are atypical in some way, yet you don't see this being discussed at all when it comes to mental health. Yet again as a woman with not only a mental illness, but probably a neurodiverse condition, I'm the person nobody wants to be.

Albadross I wanted to post similar sentiments about mental health.
How dare they further stigmatise yet another vulnerable population?
It's fucking insulting.
I haven't seen any discussion about this aspect of the trans activists' tactics.
Such a nasty cheap shot, but using such snide tactics is unsurprising within the current TA creed.

I think suicide rates are rather high in people with MH problems too

Albadross ^Yet again as a woman with not only a mental illness, but probably a neurodiverse condition, I'm the person nobody wants to be.6

I'm in the same boat, but its ok - I've decided to identify as sane.

"being a boy and liking dolls is not a mental health issue"

No, but being a boy but thinking you are a girl, wanting your penis cut off etc is probably a mental health issue.

What you are talking about it GENDER, and there is nothing wrong with people of either sex wanting to act outside of their gender expectations.

What trans movement is about is SEX, and there is a lot wrong with people thinking they are something they physically are not, and wanting to surgically modify their bodies to mimic the other sex.

When painfully thin anorexics think they are fat (something they are physically not) and want to modify their bodies to fit an incorrect mental picture, we don't help them diet. We try to help them solve the conflict between their perception and their reality.

When people with Body Integrity Identity Disorder sincerely believe one of their limbs is too much for their bodies, causing them great distress, we don't hack it off for them and wave them off happily hopping on one leg. As with anorexics, we try to help them psychologically, to resolve the conflict between their mind's perception and their physical reality.