Transgender Documentary on BBC2 Thursday 2100 "Transgender Kids: Who Knows best?"

[ItsAllGoingToBeFine]

Looks like an interesting watch, that does not just accept the trans children or they will kill themselves rhetoric. I just hope the BBC actually do show it and aren't bullied into not showing it.

www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b088kxbw

The blurb:

Around the world there has been a huge increase in the number of children being referred to gender clinics - boys saying they want to be girls and vice versa. Increasingly, parents are encouraged to adopt a 'gender affirmative' approach - fully supporting their children's change of identity. But is this approach right?

In this challenging documentary, BBC Two's award-winning This World strand travels to Canada, where one of the world's leading experts in childhood gender dysphoria (the condition where children are unhappy with their biological sex) lost his job for challenging the new orthodoxy that children know best. Speaking on TV for the first time since his clinic was closed, Dr Kenneth Zucker believes he is a victim of the politicisation of transgender issues. The film presents evidence that most children with gender dysphoria eventually overcome the feelings without transitioning and questions the science behind the idea that a boy could somehow be born with a 'female brain' or vice versa. It also features 'Lou' - who was born female and had a double mastectomy as part of transitioning to a man. She now says it is a decision that 'haunts' her and feels that her gender dysphoria should have been treated as a mental health issue.

I think it is all rather cultish. Science does not matter, it's how you feel and what you believe to be true, rather than anything based on fact or logic .

But you would have atheists foaming at the mouth if they were being forced to accept religious doctrine or 'faith' as fact, but we are being told to swallow this ideology without question, or be a bigot

Something I find very fucked up and creepy about the transing of children by trans adults is their enthusiasm for something very many of them refuse for themselves; surgery.

Because of the passing thing plus the born that way thing and all the twisted crap about "being authentic", these adults are very keen on children's bodies being mutilated. But the majority of them don't do anything so extreme to their own bodies. It is very predatory.

I have been deleted before on MN for describing surgery as mutilating. I would like to highlight here that I do not use the word lightly, but rather as it is used in FGM - reasonable people do not shy away from calling FGM out for what it is and I think it would be very hypocritical to be coy about what GRS does to the human body.

Another one saying thank you FishInAWetSuitAndFlippers for sharing your personal experience. I think it is appalling that support is being denied to you and your child due to a political agenda. Plus the insisting about toilets usage and so on strikes me as very invasive and self-righteous. Wishing you and your family all the best x

It's awful. Anyone who colludes in censoring its critics is enabling child abuse on a grand scale. Take that on board, media sites.

Yes there is a fixation on children's bodies. Like that man who transitioned to being a six-year-old girl - entirely for sexual gratification.

There is certainly a paedophilic element in trying to preserve teenagers/young adults in their prepubescent state using drugs.

You're right, today. It is all very cultish and, no, it's not scientific. It's all based on ideology. The ones trying to practice in a scientific way, Dr Zucker and his team, have been driven out by the TRAs with their dangerous, irresponsible fanaticism. However, there's hope, from this documentary, at the very balanced judgement given in a recent court case, and in the more than 500 clinicians and academics who signed a petition against Dr Zucker's firing. There are still doctors who are dedicated to medical ethics and the scientific method. We have to hope that research data will eventually prevail. In the meantime there are going to be fuck only knows how many thousands of permanently scarred detransitioners like that poor, poor young woman. She will haunt me for a long time.

Just remembered one thing that particularly stuck out was the woman saying in a very threatening way that parents who wouldn't support medical transition should have their children removed. Can't see that happening in the UK, at least at present, but it looks as if it might be possible in North America.

The obsession with blockers is because middle aged transitioners (especially males who have bigger skeletons and jaws that cannot be altered through hormones and easily accessible surgery) wish they could go back and avoid puberty so they think its marvellous that children now can do so. It's intensely creepy.

God. Hadn't thought about it in those terms re the puberty blockers. OMG. How the fuck can this shit be allowed to happen? It's blatant child abuse.

I am very interesting in the funding for all this. There has to be an element of 'follow the money' here. Does anyone know/have a starting point?

Wow, this documentary has cheered me up! It was well balanced and everybody in it was given a proper chance to speak.

It's good that it was on the BBC as it gives a kind of 'official permission' to use our critical faculties and ask questions, rather than having to STFU and toe the line. It's a high profile programme on a mainstream channel and a lot of people will have watched who haven't really thought much about the implications of the transactivist agenda. I hope it'll start a lot of conversations.

From the nymag article:
“Transgender activists are now campaigning to stop gender dysphori[c] children being considered a medical or psychiatric problem,” notes Conroy at one point. Then he quotes Hershel Russell, one of the activists I interviewed in my piece who helped get Zucker’s clinic shut down: “It’s not about mental health, so why does it belong in a mental-health institution?” says Russell. “This is one of the things we’re hearing more and more emphatically from families who have gender-diverse kids — ‘We don’t want mental-health assistance … We don’t want to see the psychologist, we don’t want to see the psychiatrist.’”

This terrifies me and makes me so angry. I've read about so many cases of gender dysphoria in children correlating with self-harm, eating disorders, depression, anxiety, autism, sexual abuse ... so many distressed children will be let down if there is nothing built into the process for exploring and dealing with other mental and emotional issues. Transactivists bombard and blackmail us with dodgy suicide and self harm rates at the same time as campaigning to remove any psychological help from the process of transing children.

HOW FUCKING DARE THEY

I think it's massively awful that they are trying to perpetuate an idea that children with a mental health condition including autism etc are so much worse and they don't want to be associated with it, than children with a gender identity problem because of course they were just born into the wrong sex and that's perfectly normal. Though they're happy to claim a serious medical condition when they're expecting the NHS to provide.

Catching up after being out all day - such a lot of interesting stuff to take in.
Fish, I think I posted on a thread of yours a few months ago, and my heart goes out to you for what you're going through. The fact that you're navigating this path alongside your child and not passively handing them over to the system shows what a wonderful parent you are.
Going back a few pages - Manumission, hearing that your daughter changed her view is really encouraging - thanks!

I thought it was outrageous the way that awful preacher woman tried to claim that the eunuchs who featured in the Bible were the "first transgender people". They didn't have any choice! They didn't have any gender identity issues, they were mutilated against their will as a way of humiliating, controlling and punishing them. They were victims of a horrific violent crime, not trailblazers.

Yes I noticed that Doobigetta - yet more appropriation.

Doobi I thought that was pretty dodgy too - the wholesale appropriation of historical/ cultural events by transactivists

• the first person Jesus baptised was trans

-Joan of Arc was trans

• Native American two-spirit/ third gender people were trans
• The Stonewall Riots were centred around transpeople

This total rewriting of history to try and bolster their position is deeply concerning, as is their insistence on transing children as it shows that (trans)gender is innate, again bolstering their position.

I don't understand why the mainstream can't see this

Yes doob. So very telling that she couldn't make the distinction or didn't care. The congregation didn't look quite as enthused as they might have about it, I noticed TBF.

I thought it was the most balanced programme on the trans debate the BBC have ever shown and am really plesed they were brave enough to show it, although it seems sad that the pro trans activists have intimidated critics so much that a programme suggesting that maybe you can't actually "become" the opposite sex and that gender fluidity is a fluid concept not a binary concept and some people change their minds when they grow out of the "girls toys" "boys toys" artificial world of childhood is considered groundbreaking.
My son hated football and socialised mainly with girls at primary school and liked playing with my barbie dolls. He's now found a geeky group of friends like him at uni studying engineering and is a keen kayaker with a girlfriend.
Childhood is far too sexually stereotyped. My interests and clothes are very similar to my husband's.

todayitstarts the money angle is a very interesting point. I can't offer specifics but it does make me think: just at the point when being gay has become more mainstream and acceptable than ever before, it is a way to invent and profit from whole new markets for all sorts of products, services, treatments, you name it.

Adding on: that's not to say it's completely unproblematic to be gay now - of course it isn't and homophobia is still an issue. P

I can't believe lifelong hormone treatments don't come into it somewhere.

Todayitstarts I've read quite a lot about the funding issue, and can dig some out if you want to do some reading.

Typically TRAs are white and affluent. A sizable number of them work in STEM. Their motivation for transition is sexual. Trans porn is a huge thing. At least 10% of porn caters to this group.

So they are wealthy and very keen to conceal any sexual undercurrent. Now if they can convince people that trans people are "born this way" they can appeal to public sympathy, which they have done with a frightening level of success. There are several billionaire transwomen who fund activism.

Add to that the fact that the big LGBT organizations have rather lost their purpose with the achievement of gay marriage. What is the next big campaign going to be? There are literally thousands of people making a handsome living from these organizations, and they don't want the gravy train to stop.

Campaigning for trans rights fills that gap and an astonishing number of current LGBT leaders are what 10 years ago would have been called straight men. Lesbians, who have never had their fair crack of the whip in LGBT circles, are now being totally abandoned by organizations which are supposed to support them. Many are totally disillusioned.

So you have a lot of money available for campaigns plus highly experienced political groups to run them. HTH.

Sorry that's so long. If I've got anything wrong I'm sure someone will explain.

Speaking as a disillusioned lesbian, Prawn, I'd say your explanation makes a lot of sense.

I've never thought about the gay marriage thing but wow I see your point.

I mean in terms of the transagenda.

Prawn. would def like further reading. Can you post or PM?.

Who is the billionaire transwoman? Which company?