Do you think men can be feminists?

[AVirginLitTheCandle]

This may sound like a stupid question but do you think men can be feminists?

I've always thought they can be but I perhaps some radical feminists will disagree with me.

PoochSmooch thanks for the post, I see your point.

It's very clever of userorwhoeverthatwas to conclude from one or two threads comprised of a handful of users on mumsnet, that they are to denounce feminism and it's all your fault!

Listen, men engaging in feminism always go the way of Dr they belittle, mansplain and do eyerolls. Perfect example of why men can't be feminists.

Feminism is a political movement, anyone can believe in it regardless of their sexual organs. The reasons for believing it to be true may be different based on experience.

Sparrowhawk I don't even know who you are, apart from the fact you are rude.

Several posters said on the first page they thought men could be feminists.

You then stated. We've already explained why men can't be feminists

Who is "we"? And why does their opinion count less than your opinion?

Then you said
According to DrMorbius they can, and we must all defer to his Rational Rightness because he is a Man

With no trace apparently of how ironic that statement is.

I know who you are Lass, you're a non-feminist who spends a lot of time discussing feminism. If you have something to contribute to the thread beyond quoting me, feel free.

I wouldn't agree it's a political movement, girlwith

Feminism combines social theory, moral philosophy and political movement. But above all it is spurred by personal experience.

Men benefit from women's unpaid labour and women's opression so I do not believe a man's heart would ever be truly "in" with feminism.

Feminism is a political movement, anyone can believe in it regardless of their sexual organs. The reasons for believing it to be true may be different based on experience

No girlwithflaxenhair How silly of you- didn't you see Sparrowhawk's explanation?

Sparrowhawk you have no interest in any one else's opinion unless they agree with you.

Several posters said they thought men could be feminists. Then you weighed in with your explanation why they cannot.

What makes your opinion more important than theirs?

I'd go with feminist-ally. Or they could always choose "equalist"...

I'd be suspicious of a man claiming to be a feminist in the same way it's suspicious that a non feminist woman tells feminists how wrong they are.

I think Yorkshiretree has summed it up the best

Beyond the problem with "equalist" is that the movement already exists in Marxism.
You still get sexism and patriarchy under Marxism, although agreeably not as much. Feminism (for some) is more about liberation from patriarchy than exact equality between everyone.

I'd be suspicious of a man claiming to be a feminist in the same way it's suspicious that a non feminist woman tells feminists how wrong they are

If you mean me I have not told anyone how wrong they are. Different opinions were expressed , one poster seems to think her opinion outweighs the opinions of others.

0phelia, I wasn't agreeing with the idea of "equalist", I mean that a man who claims to be feminist probably has ideas more along the lines of what people call equalist ("oh I'm not a feminist, I believe in equal rights for everyone ...) i.e. they don't really 'get' the idea that women are oppressed.

Oddly enough Lass I imagine we agree - given that you think no one should be a feminist?

DrMorbius I'm still curious as to how you would advocate for female rape victims?

I'm afraid your positions just don't make sense to me.

Feminism is something you believe - anyone can believe in anything.

If you think that men will not really want to act in a way you consider "feminist" then that is a different thing. I think it's a controversial view that would lead to e.g. wealthy people being told that they can't really be interested in sharing wealth.

Rich people aren't really interested in sharing wealth. No one needs a Porsche or a mansion, that money could lift thousands out of poverty, but rich people don't want to share wealth that much. Equally men don't want to lose their privilege.

Sure feminism is a belief, but it's a belief based on the experences of women.
Rich ppl are interested in flaunting wealth. Men are interested in flaunting superiority.

I think it's controversial because it implies that people can only be motivated by the prospect of personal gain, not because it's morally right.

Given that a man will never live the experience of being female, can you honestly believe he can qualify himself as "feminist"?

Of course. To use the race analogy - i'm unaware of anyone saying "white people aren't really interested in ending racial discrimination, because it they would lose privilege", which is effectively what you are saying. Feminism is not an "experience" since a great many women do not believe in feminism.

I think a man can be a supporter but to actually claim to be a feminist and even try to contribute to the discussion about what feminism is/should be just displays your privilege for all to see. Where feminism is concerned men should shut up and listen first and foremost.

'i'm unaware of anyone saying "white people aren't really interested in ending racial discrimination, because it they would lose privilege", which is effectively what you are saying'

So why do you think apartheid happened? Why do you think black people make up 13% of the total US population but 40% of the incarcerated population? Why do you think twice as many black people as white people are killed by police in the US? Is that just down to luck? Of course not, it's down to white people not ending racial discrimination, because they don't want to lose their privilege. That's what inequality is all about - it doesn't just happen.

William Wilberforce ?