MRAs

[girlwiththeflaxenhair]

This has maybe already been posted but couldn't find anything.

I've been trying to learn more about feminism and mens rights/anti feminists/mgotw/whatever and had a question or thought. Probably not an original one by any means.

It seems to me that a large part of the MRA agenda is driven by a feeling of rejection, they feel that women are the gatekeepers of sex and that if a woman wont have sex with them, but will with other men, that is a direct message that the other man is better than them.

Leaving this rather ugly stuff to one side for now, it seems like for this army of bitter young men to exist, there must be a corresponding number of young women who are single. Either that, or all the young women are going after the same "alpha" type males (I think this is the explanation that would be accepted in the MRA sphere)

I then started looking at whether there really were more single men than women, and it seems there are at the age a lot of these men seem to be (I assume most of them to be 25 or below?). However once you get to over 45 there are many more single women than men.

So how can this be ? The only explanation I can come up with is that it is more common for young women to date older guys that the other way around. Looking around at my own friendship group there are a few age gaps of 10 years plus with younger women/older man - I don't know any the other way around.

Is anyone interested in discussing this ? Are age gap relationships more common now than they used to be ?

The stats were from here

www.citylab.com/housing/2015/02/where-in-the-us-are-there-more-single-men-than-women/385369/

US based, so YMMV. How could there be (statistically significant) more single men than women ? There can't really be ? So there must be something in the way those single men feel as opposed to those single women ?

I don't think the stats are very clear.
It's based on towns/cities not overall. So maybe more single young men move to cities to live/work, while women stay in the country?
Also by single it means unmarried, so not necessarily actually single.
Don't think one can draw any reliable inferences about age gap relationships from that.

These stats are more detailed and suggest that amongst people with degrees, there are more single women than men in all age groups.
Amongst those without degrees there are more single men in all but the oldest age group (I'm assuming because women tend to live longer)
Is this because more women than men have degrees in the US?
I can't see any evidence it's down to age gaps.
labs.time.com/story/see-the-ratio-of-single-men-to-women-where-you-live/

I've seen quite a bit of stuff from some MRAs elsewhere and they talk a lot about 'today's gynocentric society' and believe that it's actually men who are oppressed. It doesn't seem to be about entitlement to sex (at least on the face of it), but more about how women claim to be discriminated against, equality doesn't exist for feminists etc. They seem to use arguments based on ancient history (Rome/Egypt etc) to try and prove their point.

To me, it rather smacks of a certain group afraid of losing their entitlement and generally being a bit afraid of women, but happy to hear what people think.

I'd take it a lot more seriously if they ever had evidence to back up their theories. At least feminism has solid research backing, never seen that for the MRA hobby horses (like women being favourably treated by the courts).
The male suicide rates are an issue however I never see MRAS suggesting any action, just using it to derail feminists.

Gender pay gap is something that comes up a lot. As in they say that women in younger age groups are paid equal or more for the same jobs but the older groups are paid less because they have chosen to take time out for families on the basis that children are a lifestyle choice and/or are victims of the older generation where sexism was acceptable in the workplace.

Agree about the male suicide rates, that does seem to get trotted out a lot though as you say, more as a 'but whatabout' rather than cause and prevention.

There's evidence from online dating that men show a preference for younger women, especially as they get older:

thesocietypages.org/socimages/2015/07/03/ok-cupid-data-on-sex-desirability-and-age/

I suspect that explains some of the age discrepancy in singledom.

Place marking as brain not working tonight, but mras drive me nuts and I have thought about all this a lot too.

Good point, NDT.

Flaxen, in your OP, you suggested that younger women were going for older men. Seems like it might be the other way round, not sure what the MRAs would make of that.

I think much like feminism mra's are a bit of a broad church. In addition to things mentioned above like mental health/suicide. other issues I have come across under discussion are in no particular order:

• Loss of the children upon relationship breakdown.
• Overrepresentation of men in workplace accidents/fatalities.

-The Draft.

• Disparity in allocation of funds re: men's health.
• Gender tax gap.
• They also seem to live in constant fear of being accused of rape.

There is a lot that gets talked about really. Hope this helps. I am a man, and I've been through the family court system and I haven't really encountered any bias against men. Then again I have always been actively involved in the care of my child. I have always said to fellow men that involvement with your children has to be extensive before a break up.

I haven't dug into the veracity of a lot of the other stuff as of yet.

I don't think MRAs are a broad church at all. I think there are plenty of men and women who want to make life fairer for everybody. But I have never come across a MRA who didn't think that that was only achievable by women giving ground to men.

Yeah some of the people on here clearly view life as a big pie and women can only gain equality by reducing mens slice. It's a very black and white way of viewing the world.

Flaxen, in your OP, you suggested that younger women were going for older men. Seems like it might be the other way round, not sure what the MRAs would make of that.

Not sure what you mean - i assume both parties in any age gap rel. are happy to be in it, so they must both "go for" each other.

From what I can tell they premise of these groups is the opposite of feminism, so the two are diametrically opposed. i.e. they think it is females that have the privilege - mainly because they seem to think they can use "sex" to get whatever they want ?

There is a documentary out by a feminist about MRAs called "The Red Pill".
I haven't seen it and must admit until I read a short piece on it that I hadn't heard of the term.

Are MRAs under 25? All the ones I've encountered seem to be late middle aged.

"There's evidence from online dating that men show a preference for younger women, especially as they get older:"

No shit Sherlock

Doesn't mean the younger women have a preference for these older men though, does it?

I think that it's linked to something that happens in real life as well - quite a lot of men seem to take an "if you don't ask you don't get" attitude to women. So they will approach all and sundry, with no mind to whether the women looks open to an approach, large differences in attractiveness levels or age etc. This is something that ends up with women getting pissed off with men in general as they end up getting "pestered" when they go out. (Thinking pubs/bars here). And of course there are the ones who won't take no for an answer and get aggressive, or the ones who don't get aggressive but equally just won't go away, which is just really annoying.

Anyway.

I dont' think MRAs are all young either.

There is concern esp in USA that the MRA scene is a recruiting ground for neo nazi / white supremacist (alt right) groups. Men who are feeling disillusioned because they can't pull (!) go online, discover these people, many of the groups are not just anti-women but also racist etc.

The Draft and the deaths thing

Rather than campaigning to get rid of the Draft, and for better health and safety in work (and they always leave out prostitution which is mainly female and has a very very high death and injury rate)

They say that women should be drafted / die in equal numbers at work too.

Like that Philip thingy who is now on the equalities committee saying it was sexist that more men are in prison than women and that more women should be sent to prison to make it fair

Actually their wage gap argument (it's a choice a woman makes after children to get low pay (ha!)) could be applied to their dangerous work comments (it's a choice) but strangely I've never seen that link before.

For example I have never come across MRAs online discussing what can be done about the safety for miners in China.

I'd be pleased to hear they are taking action around things like this, but I suspect they aren't.

Frankly, I have never come across an MRA taking action about anything. They just want women to do it for them.

No you're totally wrong about that Bertrand.

They want women to shut the fuck up
Then do it for them
Then give them a blow job

Then cook them a steak.

And on turning 35, source them a new parter aged 18 before jumping off a cliff.

Harsh.... But fair? Certainly for some of them.

Re: deaths of prostitues I've made that case before, but it just occurs to me that you could as well include the murders/assaults at the hands of partners/ex-partners. Looking at all the economic value women have historically provided within the household, and applying that as a workplace for many women maybe we arrive at a comparable figure.

I will say if there is one thing I've learned from 2016 is that failing to listen to opposing viewpoints leads to radicalisation of people who feel they aren't getting a fair hearing, so I'll be casting a weather eye at all the MRA rhetoric this year.

What I will say is that one thing MRA's have in common with feminists is that their position in the public sphere is dominated by accusations of hating the opposing gender.

What I am considering doing is starting a website for gender rights advocacy, but the twist is the men will be raising awareness for women's issues and vice versa the women for the men. I'm not sure if it's an endeavour doomed to failure and my intention is not to supplant feminism in any way. I just fear we may need some new paradigms of looking at things in the 21st century as everything is going to hell in a handbasket with division, intolerance and bigotry on the rise from all quarters.

I'm still not entirely clear what rights MRA are advocating for........