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Original poster

Women and Christmas

153 replies

Smartleatherbag · 22/12/2016 20:58

Apologies if this has been done to death, but may I have a short rant with the like minded?
Everywhere right now, at the school gates, work, on social media, women are running themselves ragged while their male partners do sweet fa, or very little. So many women take on this responsibility and have it foisted on them.
It drives me potty!
My husband is in charge of Christmas here. I have health problems, so it's always fallen to him, apart from cooking. All the shopping, gifts, cards, organising, he does it. So then I get the 'ooh you've got him well trained" thing. No. Any adult can do these things.

OP posts:
PigletWasPoohsFriend · 23/12/2016 13:48

I think traditionally women have done it 'all' and that women of a certain age (gonna say 60 plus) will continue to do it all, in the same way that they ran the house whilst the man worked

Bit of a sweeping statement.

My DM, MIL and aunt are all over that age. All worked in professional jobs. As did plenty of their friends.

whattheseithakasmean · 23/12/2016 13:52

I have to say, my mum is in her 70s and always worked in a professional job. I sometimes think young women today have this really weird view of the past based on 1950s nostalgia and idealised media portrayals that bear no relation to the actual, everyday lives of most people. My life is not like the pages of Good Housekeeping any more than my mums ever was.

whoputthecatout · 23/12/2016 14:30

Another old gimmer here who thinks that sometimes some posters have weird ideas about older people. My DCs were small in the 60s/70s and I've always worked full time as did most of my friends. And our husbands shared the housework, minded the DCs etc. We don't live in some sort of parallel universe.

Sorry, grumpy of me. But I hate ageism.

Limer · 23/12/2016 14:30

When I was a child I remember seeing a Fanny Craddock clip of her stuffing a turkey while bemoaning that Christmas was a nightmare for women, with all the cooking/hostessing/cleaning etc. That clip would've dated from the late 60s/early 70s.

You only have to read the Poncetastic threads on MN to realise that there's a significant minority of women who love going totally OTT with all the planning, crafting, cooking etc. Which is fine. The problem is when everyone else assumes that all women are like that.

RufusTheSpartacusReindeer · 23/12/2016 15:02

limer has said what i would have Smile

Waitingfordolly · 23/12/2016 16:07

My mum worked full time when we were young and she is 83, but I remember the men all going to the pub on Xmas day morning and coming back late for dinner and my mum having to manage keeping everything warm etc.

I think Christmas is just a reflection of every other time really when the majority of the planning, coordination and family social arrangements are done by women. It would be really interesting to know what would happen if we just decided not to do it, but I suspect most of us wouldn't want to disappoint our DCs.

SenecaFalls · 23/12/2016 16:27

I think traditionally women have done it 'all' and that women of a certain age (gonna say 60 plus) will continue to do it all, in the same way that they ran the house whilst the man worked

I don't know about the UK, but the vast majority of the women I know in this age group in the US, myself included, worked outside the home (I'm still working past retirement age) and didn't do it all because they didn't have the time. In addition, when our children were young, Christmas expectations were considerably lower than they are now so there was less to do in the first place.

Many people on MN seem to forget that we 60-somethings were young women and grew to political and social awareness in the heyday of second wave feminism.

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 23/12/2016 17:37

I sometimes think some younger posters on here seem to imagine that older posters lived their adult lives actually in the 194Os and 1950s as opposed to having been born in those decades.

And as you say with a really weird nostalgia as if we all lived Mrs Minver sort of lives

SenecaFalls · 23/12/2016 17:43

So true, Lass.

larrygrylls · 23/12/2016 18:33

My late mother (born in the late 30s) really did do it all, including decorating the house, lunch for 20+ every year (including two prepared-from-scratch home made stuffings in the turkey) etc.

I am early 50s and am racking my brains for anyone of my age where Christmas is so one sided, and I really cannot. Most people I know either split it or the husband does the majority (even if in full time employment).
Maybe it is to do with the circles/class/geographical location that I am in but I no longer recognise the stereotypically sexist Christmas that the OP is talking about.

And slightly ironic to whinge about the women doing all the work when her husband does it all!

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 24/12/2016 02:20

I have really been noticing ageism on MN over the last couple of days.

There was a virtue signalling thread yesterday on AIBU pondering whether the poster's mother in law made a racist comment ( answer -yes, clearly she did, why do you need that validated?) where the poster spectacularly shot herself in the foot with remarks about old people not knowing any better.

I'm currently fuming about another one where a poster thinks it is hysterically funny that on the grannies' half price shopping day in the Co-op the shop played Gay Bar by Electric Six over the tannoy. Presumably because the words "gay bar" will send all us oldies into fits of the vapours.

SenecaFalls · 24/12/2016 02:42

Ha. Perhaps forgetting that quite a few oldies are, in fact, gay. It's not like the hipsters invented it.

amispartacus · 24/12/2016 09:10

Maybe it is to do with the circles/class/geographical location that I am in but I no longer recognise the stereotypically sexist Christmas that the OP is talking about

Yet a glance at the threads on MN do reveal some sexism, expectations and that feeling of pressure to do the perfect Christmas so maybe there is still something going on..

amispartacus · 24/12/2016 09:13

My DM, MIL and aunt are all over that age. All worked in professional jobs. As did plenty of their friends

DM worked professionally. Part time. And was expected to do most of the housework, cooking and all the 'child' related stuff. DF just worked full time.

Beebeeeight · 24/12/2016 09:21

There's already been a thread about Christmas wifework.

Susan should write another book just about Christmas!

Yes it's work. Yes it's unpaid. Yes it's mostly done by women. And yes it's undervalued.

Even when men do it, it's the woman's responsibility.

Personally I don't have good Christmas memories as a child. I've always 'blamed' my DM. Never actually framed that from a feminist perspective and looked to DF to have taken some of that responsibility.

I don't think he's ever decorated a tree in his life.

Elendon · 24/12/2016 09:24

What I found with young children and school going children was the constant pressure on the social activities surrounding Christmas. My ex was rarely involved, but would have weekly diary meetings, at a time when it suited him, regarding forthcoming events. Everything was done with a strict regard to the timetable, all fitting in around him. Thank goodness I no longer have to factor that in.

whattheseithakasmean · 24/12/2016 09:29

I think on the thread about christmas wifework many posters pointed out that the 'work' was utterly unnecessary and no one cared if it was done or not. As I said earlier on the thread, I think this is as much about consumerism as sexism. There is so much extra unnecessary shit around and yes, it is primarily marketed at women. But they don't have to buy it. And far from being martyred angels whose nasty men won't lift a finger, they are consumer pawns who should not being purchasing ever more things that will end up in landfill and polluting our oceans and more gluttonous piles of foodstuff, much of which will be wasted.

amispartacus · 24/12/2016 09:35

There is so much extra unnecessary shit around and yes, it is primarily marketed at women

Looks at reindeer food for Rudolph Grin

How much is aimed at making Christmas 'special' for the children and playing on guilt if it's not perfect for them?

whattheseithakasmean · 24/12/2016 09:39

How much is aimed at making Christmas 'special' for the children and playing on guilt if it's not perfect for them?

Indeed, and how much do the children really need, notice or care? Happy parents with a bit of time for them will create better xmas memories that rows about who sends cards, piles of tat and home made mince pies.

Elendon · 24/12/2016 09:46

There is so much extra unnecessary shit around and yes, it is primarily marketed at women. But they don't have to buy it. And far from being martyred angels whose nasty men won't lift a finger, they are consumer pawns who should not being purchasing ever more things that will end up in landfill and polluting our oceans and more gluttonous piles of foodstuff, much of which will be wasted.

I hate this argument. It is marketed at the family, men are just as culpable at landfill and gluttonous piles of foodstuff. Men are just as wasteful as women. Consumer pawns are humans.

Basically, you are saying men are the drivers of consumer consumption, women are the ones who suck this in.

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 24/12/2016 10:25

I think this is as much about consumerism as sexism. There is so much extra unnecessary shit around and yes, it is primarily marketed at women. But they don't have to buy it

I agree.

Basically, you are saying men are the drivers of consumer consumption, women are the ones who suck this in

Well from the evidence on MN it does seem to be women who obsess about the perfect Christmas. If you ( in the general sense ) are going to complain about the "wife-work" involved it seems disingenuous to take exception to the suggestion that perhaps thinking about not doing it might be a solution.

DeviTheGaelet · 24/12/2016 10:35

Women do buy more stuff than men, as attested by the balance of mens vs women's clothes shops, the existence of boots etc. Why women are the main consumers I don't know.
There's some stats here she-conomy.com/facts-on-women
It's interesting reading.

amispartacus · 24/12/2016 12:03

Why women are the main consumers I don't know

I could imagine that would be an interesting thread.

Is it this?

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 24/12/2016 12:11

I could imagine that would be an interesting thread

It would be.

DeviTheGaelet · 24/12/2016 12:22

Think that pretty much nails it ami Grin

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