Women and Christmas

[Smartleatherbag]

Apologies if this has been done to death, but may I have a short rant with the like minded?
Everywhere right now, at the school gates, work, on social media, women are running themselves ragged while their male partners do sweet fa, or very little. So many women take on this responsibility and have it foisted on them.
It drives me potty!
My husband is in charge of Christmas here. I have health problems, so it's always fallen to him, apart from cooking. All the shopping, gifts, cards, organising, he does it. So then I get the 'ooh you've got him well trained" thing. No. Any adult can do these things.

[whattheseithakasmean]

The amount of pointless crap to buy expands in response to the amount of disposable income available

I do think this is true and we are all the poorer for it - particularly in relation to the long term environmental impact and what it will mean for our children.

My version of feminism is about trying to resist this marketing, which is usually aimed at women as advertisers recognise they often have the domestic spending power in relation to this sort of purchasing. Getting into a froth over the 'perfect xmas' and resenting men is playing into capitalism's hands. Step back and stop trying to cajole men into taking part in something we should be actively resisting. Children don't need most of this shite, but they do need a sustainable planet for their future.

[amispartacus]

whattheseithakasmean

That's pretty much the theme of The Good Life Christmas Special

Interesting that that show didn't feature any children. But Margot was very keen to have the perfect Christmas for her guests whilst Jerry just wanted to get drunk and relax

[BusterTheBulldog]

Speak for yourself bucking! I don't feel the urge to do any of those things.

I think traditionally women have done it 'all' and that women of a certain age (gonna say 60 plus) will continue to do it all, in the same way that they ran the house whilst the man worked. I also think it's pointless to try and change that older section of society.

I do think there is a section of women that like to do it and almost undermine the men in their so life that it's easier for them not to help out, than try and then fail to live up to ridiculous standards.

For me we talk about the type of Christmas we want and then jointly plan it, it's not hard. I refuse to do any of the writing of cards / buying presents for husbands family-he soon got the hang! Some of the problem there was that his mum would sort all of that stuff for him and his dad in the past so 'some' men have no clue about it. I choose not to perpetuate the women do it all thing and it's fine.

[Elendon]

Why should women delegate? That's extra work right there.

I do Christmas as I like it. If somebody else wants to add the extras they are welcome to do so. I like to cook Christmas dinner. Thankfully the last several Christmases has me cooking away merrily whilst listening to music and the radio with a glass of bubbly.

I suggested we all eat the dinner in our PJs It's become a wonderful gorgeous Christmas full of love and laughter. I don't feel I have to step up to the perfection line anymore post divorce.

[80sWaistcoat]

I'm taking on board a comment from another thread which said that Victoria Coren said she was going to do Christmas 'like a man this year'.

So I've taken a leaf of our FIL, DSS and DH's books and just sitting back and letting whatever happens happen.

I am popping out to buy some bacon later as I quite fancy a bacon bap on Christmas Eve morning - but that's it really.

[amispartacus]

I think it can be a bit like a game of bluff or chicken. I was watching Everybody Loves Raymond recently. A suitcase had been left on the stairs. Both thought 'it was the other person's job to move it' so they left it. Didn't talk about it.

If no one mentioned Christmas at all in the house, I do wonder who would 'break' and mention it first. And when?

[amispartacus]

Slight cross post there?

Just wait and see what happens.

I bet the kids break first

[MistresssIggi]

I told dh I couldn't cope with what I had to do the other night (Christmas and other things) and he said "just give me a list of what needs to be done". Great, I thought for half a second, before realising that the bit that's dragging me under is the responsibility for everything, and I'd just added another task to the list..

[DeviTheGaelet]

I do think this is true and we are all the poorer for it - particularly in relation to the long term environmental impact and what it will mean for our children.
Totally agree. Now with the amount of electronics that go obsolete after a few years it's even worse. I try not to buy electronics but it's really hard especially with teen Ds.

[Underparmummy]

DH is in charge of the kitchen and wine supplies in our house for xmas day (I help him when needed).

I want to do xmas playdate/parties, buy and wrap lots of presents, have lots of funny crackers and decorations etc (he helps me when needed).

I get funny looks and told how lucky i am when I say DH does all the cooking. No-one seems to tell him how lucky he is that I do all the rest...

[LassWiTheDelicateAir]

I think traditionally women have done it 'all' and that women of a certain age (gonna say 60 plus) will continue to do it all, in the same way that they ran the house whilst the man worked

Gosh. I'm 57 and a half. Do you think those 2 and a half years was what saved me from agonising about creating a special, magical, perfect Christmas?

I do agree about the horrendous amount of superfluous tat (and yes I realise "superfluous tat" is tautologous)

[TrustySnail]

Isn't it often the case that the partner doing all the work is the one to whom it's important? We do very little in our household because neither I nor my husband care very much for festivities - but if he suddenly decided he wanted the full works, I'd expect him to organise decorations, Christmas clothing, festive loo roll or whatever else he felt was necessary for a 'perfect Christmas'. I understand the point about societal expectations, but it really is up to the individual whether to conform to them.

[BusterTheBulldog]

Yep lass I do, particularly the half . 60 was my vague generalisation line, baby boomer generation maybe? People my parents and in law age basically but I don't think anyone here knows them-it's a generalisation.

[Elendon]

My mum, who is 91, can't really be bothered about the decorations but she never fails to make a good dinner. She always loves to cook, just like me. Though she enjoys others cooking for her. Anything else is superfluous, including the decorations.

[M0stlyHet]

I agree that there is an immense amount of social pressure to get Christmas perfect, and that the pressure falls disproportionately on women. Of course it doesn't mean that every single woman is subject to that pressure - I was lucky enough to be brought up by parents who didn't buy into the "perfect Christmas" nonsense, and for whom it was a nice midwinter holiday, to be made pretty and Christmassy within reason, but not at the expense of everyone running themselves ragged. And some women of course buck social conditioning and say "fuck that for a game of soldiers" (my mum, who would be 87 now if she were still alive, almost certainly made that conscious decision at some point in her 20s or 30s!)

But the weight of social expectation can be immense. The only time I've ever experienced it was the time where I felt socially obliged to reciprocate a friend's Christmas invitation from the previous year (was complicated, and don't get me wrong, I was immensely glad she hosted Christmas the previous year for a whole host of reasons). But she actually gave me a list of how things had to be done (again, complicated reasons involving family member with AS which accounted why this was not as unreasonable as it seems). But it was a totally fucking awful experience for me - my tiny galley kitchen and tiny house was just not up to the preparation and hosting of that sort of elaborate thing, and I came down with flu, and I really did feel like the mother in the Asda advert, sitting on the poufe with her nose level with the table. Never again!

But I am lucky in that I'm not trapped in a web of familial social expectations that enable me to say "never again". Some women - not because they are weak, or feeble minded, or can't find the strength to "just say no", but because the social set up we find ourselves in is never wholly of our own choosing and has a lot to do with family ties and upbringing - do genuinely find themselves under immense pressure to produce the perfect Christmas, even if they'd rather do something low key and easy. My one-off nightmare Christmas is their every single sodding time Christmas.

[GreatPointIAgreeWithYouTotally]

I think Facebook has amplified the anxiety people have about having a perfect Christmas.

Everyone sees everyone else's Christmas pictures of what used to be a relatively private family event and the ante is upped in a grotesque Christmas Top Trumps.

Would you really want 200 vague friends, friends of friends peering into your house on Christmas, thinking

'Ooh look, their baubles aren't on trend', 'you'd think she'd have ad her roots done for Christmas!' ,'can't believe they're still in their pjs...'.

I'm not on Facebook but the idea of being on show does nothing for me,

Socially enforced gift buying is ideal for ramping up consumerism/capitalism and increasing the socioeconomic divide:

Most people already have too much stuff and so other people buying them more stuff gets round the problem of people not buying for themselves as their houses are already over flowing. See Marie Kondo threads

The rich get rich out of the big companies as poorer people work at low wages and long hours, to produce the stuff, sell the stuff, and poorer people buy it even though they can't afford it, to keep up with the Adcreated Jones' family.

Meanwhile many of the rich have a older style frugal Christmas as they are richer than the Jones' and so have nothing to prove.

[GreatPointIAgreeWithYouTotally]

Bah humbug.

[Windthebloodybobbinup]

I think women are encouraged by social media, adverts, magazines etc to take on the role of creating a perfect Christmas. Magical for the children, all social niceties seen to (cards for relatives/neighbours), the perfect dinner table, perfect meal etc. You can make an individual decision as to whether you take that on, but there is pressure and judgement if you don't. It's not really about men doing or not doing things, it's about who is seen as responsible- and guess what I've never seen a men's magazine giving tips for creating a perfect Christmas!

[allegretto]

I think the food shopping is a bit out of control in the U.K. But not sure how it got like that. My parents came to us in Italy last year and my mum was telling me weeks in advance to buy stuff in! I got it all on 23rd (as I did today). The shops weren't any busier than usual. Not sure why it needs such a lot of planning to essentially do a roast dinner.

[amispartacus]

You can make an individual decision as to whether you take that on, but there is pressure and judgement if you don't

I wonder who is doing the judging? Seems to be the MIL if you read a lot of threads on here....

[allegretto]

There is a lot of research on how women are expected to do all the kinship work in a family - sending cards, keeping in contact, arranging meals etc Yes, it is possible not to do it but women also tend to get blamed for not making an effort! I sent out all the Christmas cards - but only to my friends. Not because I'm making a point but because dh has never sent cards so why start now? On a side note: almost all the cards I receive address me as Firstname DH's surname - even though I haven't changed my name and I regularly remind people I haven't...sigh...

[VeryPunny]

I do wonder how many men only go on about how much stress women put themselves under at Christmas and how it should be much more low key safe in the knowledge that Christmas will happen anyway. I think if the Christmas producers in their lives went on strike they'd be upset. Not to the point of doing anything, you understand, but enough to cause a drama about how Christmas had been ruined.

My own childhood Christmas memories have been somewhat tainted by realising my mother did it all - catering for 16, cleaning house, present buying, card writing etc, and her Christmas nights were spent tidying up whilst the men snoozed in front of the fire and kids played. But at the same time, she was a SAHM and my dad often worked long hours to provide.

[PutDownThatLaptop]

I always thought that in my house, it was me that did these things because I was the only one who was so bothered about it all. DH doesn't do the gift shopping or decorating, but he is always busy doing other housework tasks at the time that I am doing them. We cook the Christmas day food 50/50 and I think he does way more of the clearing up on the actual day.

Once, our eldest was in hospital and when we came home, DH and DS2 had decorated the house, which surprised me.

I do think that there is an unfortuante expectation that the woman will arrange everything. This is certainly the case in most families of my acquaintance.

[MistresssIggi]

60 is a pretty low bar for assuming women were sahms! The women in their 60s I know all worked, some still do. My mil in her 80s worked.
It is a very complicated thing, some pressures come from advertising, some from parents and inlaws, some are internal on some level and involve showing love for others through our actions - something girls will have learned at their mother's knee for the most part.