BDSM and Feminism?

[LittleBooInABox]

What are your thoughts, can someone be in a BDSM relationship and still be a feminist?

Can a women yield control to her partner, (male or female) in a safe, sane and consensual manor.

Or not?

I'm curious.

Really?

Of course.
Giving yourself willingly because it's something that provides you with a meaningful pleasure and you've made conscious consent to it is different to having your power taken away unwillingly or being in danger. Of course you can be "feminist" within the context of bdsm. Plus "feminist" has different meaning to different people. There's no copy mold.

Why?

We had a similar thread a while back
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/2732222-BDSM-is-a-sexual-orientation-not-a-fetish

Sure, she can be a feminist, but only if she acknowledges that her fetish is deeply problematic in terms of interpersonal relationships between males and females and that it plays out toxic power dynamics which are mirrored in wider patriarchal society. If she thinks her kink is a feminist act because she's a woman so it must be or because it 'empowers' her to be slapped and called a cumslut then nah, she's not a feminist

Maybe this thread should merge with the thread about why people get so defensive over feminist issues.

BDSM is not feminist.

Feminists engage in unfeminist activities all the time. Some of them deeply unfeminist.

You don't hand over your badge and teleport yourself to the 1950s just because you, say, wear make-up, take your husband's name, or get off on BDSM.

I personally think BDSM sounds horrifying, as yes, is deeply unfeminist, but I'm not going to say that someone who engages in it isn't a feminist, because it doesn't work like that.

Curious because I have heard it said, and heard these women called repressed because of there choice in relationships, I was curious as to people's thoughts of the choices.

Personally, I consider myself a feminist (kind of) and I think that feminism is allowing people to have the choice to do things even if you wouldn't choose to do it yourself.

I'm curious though how it's an in feminist act. It effects only the people in that relationship. Both parties get something out of it. So I don't feel it effects wider society as a whole, often people outside of the relationship don't know, that the power exchange is present.

Thank you for the link. I didn't realise there was a search feature, I'm on my phone. I shall have a look :)

Of course they can & have people forgotten it's not just men who are dominating and women the sub? It goes the other way too where men are dominated.

Many who comments have no real understanding of BDSM...

Ithink that feminism is allowing people to have the choice to do things even if you wouldn't choose to do it yourself

That's the definition of liberal feminism, which is highly contested. I don't believe that women can make truly free choices under patriarchy so I don't agree that any choice a woman makes is a feminist one, nor that feminism is about making choices possible.
Have you ever heard the phrase 'the personal is political'? It's a key second wave feminist tenet. That's what I believe. That's why enjoying being slapped and called a cumslut is a harmful activity in a macro (as well as micro IMO) sense

But I fail to understand how being slapped and called a cumslut (not everyone is into degrading play) is harmful to wider society?
What about the men who submit to a women or is that because of the patriarchy as well?

It is clear that not many understand BDSM for what it actually is. And finds it scary.

I consider myself a feminist and I enjoy Bdsm. We dont do the name calling though just the ropes and whips

My husband isnt to fussed either way but he does it because I like it and not every sexual encounter is Bdsm its actually a rare occasion if we do Bdsm.

You can be feminist and into Bdsm it doesnt effect anyone but those involved. It also doesnt effect the womans political or feminist views.

I think its no ones business what others get up to in the bedroom

That's why enjoying being slapped and called a cumslut is a harmful activity in a macro (as well as micro IMO) sense

I am not into BDSM, but i do wonder - if someone does enjoy these things - should they suppress it ? Is the enjoyment purely from socialisation ? Where does it all come from ?

I agree with Gallavich on this.

yes people into BDSM can be feminist and often are. Your sexual tastes are your own business as long as everybody is into it and enthusiastically consenting, then its nobody elses business.
Somebody might be really into being sexually dominated, but thats not because they think that is a womans role to be submissive.

I don't see why slapping your partner or calling him a cumslut would stop you being a feminist, if that is what you both enjoy.

Gallavich is not always men=Dom, woman=sub. Also what about same sex partners too?

girl, I have no idea where it comes it, it simply always has been, even to think back to way younger. It is a latent part of my sexuality and I have no abuse in my past before someone asks.

Yes, I consider myself a feminist (as does my gf). Part of feminism is having the choice to do whatever I please with my body. Having bodily autonomy. I choose to consent to my partner doing specific things that we have talked about and agreed to before. As does she as we switch roles depending on our mood.

The point is, again, that feminists can do many unfeminist things as individuals. Not everything a woman does is a feminist act. But it's up to you as an individual to reconcile that with your feminism. I personally do see it as problematic, on the whole. But if you are happy with it, that's your choice and none of anyone else's business. Just don't try to claim it as a "feminist" act or say that you are being oppressed because people are uncomfortable when you practice it in public.

I agree with dowager.

However I will say that I think there is a problem including all bdsm under one heading. A few ropes and chains are a lot less problematic within a feminist standpoint than DDlg, for eg.

Obviously BDSM isn't some private matter, or we wouldn't all know what safe, sane and consensual means or cumslut and slapping together. It's a culture that interacts with the wider culture.

The whole female dominating males thing is also massively misogynistic because it is often done through cissification (degrading men by treating them like women) and has huge overlap with presenting as a woman as a sexual fetish.

As others have said, you can do things that aren't feminist and still be a feminist.

The whole female dominating males thing is also massively misogynistic because it is often done through cissification (degrading men by treating them like women) and has huge overlap with presenting as a woman as a sexual fetish.

Actually sissy or forced cross-dressing as it's more widely known. Is quite a niche market. A lot of males have to go to professional mistresses to get that sort of kink fulfilled. The more common is small penis humiliation among male submissive, which as far as I can tell has little to do with misogyny.

Don't the two people who are engaging in the act get to decide if it's offensive to women. Not wider society?

Two people engaging in an act?

Is this some kind of tree falling in a forest question?

If two people engage in an act and nobody else knows about it, it has no impact on wider society.

I wonder why so many female dominants grind it sexually or emotionally satisfying to tell a man he has a small penis. Is anyone a female dominant who can explain?

Find it, not grind it, although grind it is weirdly fitting.

Some men like to be humiliated and one thing that humiliated them and makes them
Feel inferior is being told they have a small
Penis...