"BDSM is a sexual orientation, not a fetish"

(163 Posts)
Felascloak Wed 14-Sep-16 09:28:38

An LG BT group in Iceland is including people who identify as BDSM as a sexual identity shock

http://grapevine.is/news/2016/03/08/bdsm-in-iceland-joins-up-with-national-queer-organisation/

Maybe I am too old but this seems crazy and i hope it doesnt become wudespread. Firstly I don't want to have to listen as my coworkers/acquaintances "come out" as BDSM. Other people's sex lives are not really my business and I'd feel really uncomfortable. I don't feel like it's the same as coming out gay as when gay people come out its about their whole life and relationships, not what turns them on.
I also think logically if you accept BDSM are a "sexual orientation" then the same caSE could be made for paedophilia and that's something that some paedophiles have been pushing for forever.
The whole thing makes me feel icky.

Felascloak Wed 14-Sep-16 09:28:52

grapevine.is/news/2016/03/08/bdsm-in-iceland-joins-up-with-national-queer-organisation/l

Prawnofthepatriarchy Wed 14-Sep-16 10:35:02

This is grotesque. Bet the group will start demanding the right to wear fetish gear to work on the basis that they should have the right to express their identity.

It's nothing like being gay, as you say. Being gay is about your whole life. And you don't need to wear special clothes for it. grin

Sofabitch Wed 14-Sep-16 10:37:50

I think for some people it is.

it is not just about sex... BDSM can be a completely non sexual way of life.

the hard part is differentiating between, sexual fantasy, abuse, and lifestyles.

Sofabitch Wed 14-Sep-16 10:39:38

and i'm not sure how linking it to pedophillia is helpful... although perhaps if we id recognise pedophillia as a sexuality then there might be more support and help for people to not commit crimes.

Prawnofthepatriarchy Wed 14-Sep-16 10:39:47

Sorry, meant to add that I've seen a couple in fetish gear in public. He was leading her on a chain. I found being forced to be part of their sexual activity (the being in public was getting them both off - humiliation etc) deeply offensive.

It's like dogging. People want to do it late at night in secluded woodland, fair enough. Get after it in the station car park and I've got a lot to say.

VestalVirgin Wed 14-Sep-16 10:40:50

They were spiralling downwards from the moment on when they included the "T", which isn't a sexual orientation, either.

By now, they could call themselves a "other people find us weird" group and also accept goths and punks.

Firstly I don't want to have to listen as my coworkers/acquaintances "come out" as BDSM. Other people's sex lives are not really my business and I'd feel really uncomfortable.

Indeed. I see no reason why anyone would have to know that an acquaintance is into BDSM. That's only interesting if you want to be in a relationship with them, and then they can tell you.

It's not like people who are into BDSM are oppressed. So I really don't see why an LGB group would accept them as member - I always thought those LGB groups were about fighting the oppression faced by homosexuals. (Of course, they already dropped that by accepting the T, but I wonder what their justification to themselves is. Or what they think they are about?)

Ninasimoneinthemorning Wed 14-Sep-16 10:43:39

I just wish it would all fuck off tbh. Im sick of this generations infatuation of delving in to every others sexual tastes, gender, sexual ordination and any other new thing that keeps popping up. Why the fuck do our kids need to know that ? It's fucking weird that's it's being constantly being rammed down their throats.

VestalVirgin Wed 14-Sep-16 10:45:08

it is not just about sex... BDSM can be a completely non sexual way of life.

Non sexual slavery is also offensive to the public. That couple Prawn mentioned would be offensive even if they didn't get off on it.

France has banned burkas. I think leading women around on a chain is actually a good deal more offensive and against French equality of the sexes than a burka.

Prawnofthepatriarchy Wed 14-Sep-16 10:46:13

I understand that some varieties of paedophilia are considered a sexual orientation. It's just as deep rooted, lifelong and resistant to change as being gay. And I agree with you that making people understand that is the best way to sort out proper support for those cursed with this drive. Saw a man talking about this. It must be hell on earth.

Ninasimoneinthemorning Wed 14-Sep-16 10:52:40

Yes prawn it must be hell hmm

Also speaking of pedophillia and then linking its 'deep roots' to being gay is very fucking offensive

Prawnofthepatriarchy Wed 14-Sep-16 10:59:12

I didn't intend to be offensive. Paedophilia appears to be as innate as any other sexual orientation. That was my point. I chose being gay as a comparison because people try to "cure" homosexuality. No one's trying to cure heterosexuality.

Sofabitch Wed 14-Sep-16 11:08:40

I actually think its a reasonable comparison between homosexuality and pedophillia when analysing the way society deals with it. it was not so long ago that both were treated in a similar manner. with homosexuals being jailed for their sexual deviances.

I think its pretty safe to say that having sexual relations with a child will never be socially acceptable, but it is reasonable to say that they may feel their attraction is as definitive to them as homosexuality.

and back to BDSM... look at situations like the surrendered wife... not just sexual but clearly someone wants to make the choice to live an unbalanced relationship. i think it does need some social acceptance that some people may want to live in a way where it is not equal. but do so through choice.

in an ideal world it would be 100% irrelevant who anyone fucked/lived with/grew families, gay straight or other.

but it is not an ideal world.

I still find it abborent that I can not legally consent to things that a boxer can... or even someone playing sport.

sixinabed Wed 14-Sep-16 11:21:41

I still find it abborent that I can not legally consent to things that a boxer can... or even someone playing sport.

What things?

VestalVirgin Wed 14-Sep-16 11:32:00

I think its pretty safe to say that having sexual relations with a child will never be socially acceptable

Where? In the UK?
Hasn't Turkey recently legalised child marriage?

Just saying. Legalising pedophilia wouldn't be progressive, it would be the very opposite.

What things?

Being punched in the face, presumably.

No idea why would someone find that abhorrent. I would be a very happy woman if I could not legally consent to being penetrated by a penis. Because clearly, I could still do it - I just would have the legal leverage to get a rapist imprisoned.

MsWorthington Wed 14-Sep-16 11:32:07

No matter what lovers of BDSM might think (and some of them can be unbearably smug about how edgy they perceive themselves to be) BDSM is basically a hobby and not a sexual orientation.

Sofabitch Wed 14-Sep-16 11:34:30

In law, you cannot, as a rule, consent to an assault. There are exceptions. For example, you can consent to a medical practitioner touching and possibly injuring your body; you can consent to an opponent hitting or injuring you in sports such as rugby or boxing; you can consent to tattoos or piercings if they are for ornamental purposes.

This was originally defined in the spanner trial in the early 90's.

Sofabitch Wed 14-Sep-16 11:37:33

essentially a hobby hmm said by someone who clearly doesn't understand all aspects of bdsm.

I find bids is a spectrum. people engage at very different levels. for some the sex is not relevant. it is a lifestyle.

MsWorthington Wed 14-Sep-16 11:39:28

I see it as a hobby. I know people for whom their hobbies are their lives, how is BDSM any different?

VestalVirgin Wed 14-Sep-16 11:39:55

In law, you cannot, as a rule, consent to an assault.

Except if the assault is committed by a man and includes his shoving his penis in one of your orifices. Then the default assumption is that you consented to it.

And you really want the default assumption if a man hits you in the face to be that you consented to it? Have you really thought this through?

Sofabitch Wed 14-Sep-16 11:44:03

no, clearly not the default situation. I'm just saying there is no option to even argue consent as a case.

well as long as people assume one person sexual identity as a hobby then there will be oppression.

as with everything there is variance and diversity.

sixinabed Wed 14-Sep-16 11:50:53

In what way are people who practice BDSM oppressed? Genuine question.

MsWorthington Wed 14-Sep-16 11:52:09

Why is assuming BDSM is a hobby oppression?

I don't need to know what people do in private, neither do I care what what they do. I won't judge anyone by how they chose to have sex or conduct their intimate relationships, but neither do I feel that people who enjoy BDSM deserve special status any more than a person who say loves anime cos play and spends their spare time living as a cartoon character.

VestalVirgin Wed 14-Sep-16 11:53:05

no, clearly not the default situation. I'm just saying there is no option to even argue consent as a case.

Which is a good thing, because if it was possible to argue consent, this would be treated exactly like rape - where the default assumption is that the woman consented to it.

Do you think the attitudes that lead to the default assumption that women consented to being assaulted with a penis would not lead to the assumption that women consented to being hit in the face, if hitting women in the face came to be seen as a valid form of achieving male orgasm?

And how would it benefit you for the law to change this way? You can already allow someone to harm you. Do you really feel it is such a disadvantage that you could call the police if your BDSM partner crossed your boundaries?

WorkAccount Wed 14-Sep-16 11:54:53

I don't feel like it's the same as coming out gay as when gay people come out its about their whole life and relationships, not what turns them on.

but being Homosexual is about what turns you on?

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