Jenni Murray Woman's hour today (trans)

[Notwhatiexpected]

Hey,
Did anyone hear Jenni Murray on woman's hour today, her guest was India Willoughby. India is trans and was advocating that it was correct for the Dorchester to dictate that their female staff shave their legs.

India was very spiked in her conversation and implied Jenni was transphobic because the panalists didn't agree.

Again, a woman being called transphobic because they didn't agree with a transwoman's opinion.

Thank you Jenni for standing up for women!

Presumably India hasn't taken advantage of contacts made in tv as a man, and the current interest in the media about trans people. She has just applied for a job on loose women, as an unknown 50 yr old woman, and got the job entirely on her own merits. It was only after she'd secured the job that she revealed her trans status, because "dead naming" really upsets her so she would never do that to herself 😳

She also shaves her legs. That's very important Pete. Men don't do this. No never. If they do. They are women.

Isn't it funny how fucking flimsy their definition of "feeling like a woman" is?

I'm at university and we had a lecture on LGBT. A woman in my class claimed to be non-binary because she doesn't wear dresses or make-up. I pointed out that she has blonde hair down to her arse. Apparently that's not relevant because she doesn't "present as woman" she just "happens to be read as a woman".

It pisses me off that young women don't want to be the sex they are because of the stereotype of a dress-wearing, make-up dawbed sex doll.. Still. In 2016.

She says in the interview she isn't particularly interested in clothes or make up.

Yeah, that isn't very convincing is it. Have you seen all India's promo shots? Doesn't look like someone who isn't interested in clothes and makeup to me.

If India isn't interested in clothes or makeup why doesn't she go on Loose women wearing jeans and a t-shirt and not a scrap of makeup? Is it because she wouldn't look like India anymore?

The trans community are heavily invested in enforcing strict gender conformity in regards to appearance. They can't pass without makeup.

Well men can have long blonde hair too Pete (sighs at the remembrance of a very sexy weekend with a man with gorgeous long blonde hair - and other gorgeous attributes as well).

Women are women and men are men. It's statistically mainly obvious from puberty onward. (How did we reproduce before the introduction of Rimmel?)

She says in the interview she isn't particularly interested in clothes or make up.

All the photos I can find of her show her wearing a fair amount of slap.

Elendon My ex had blonde hair down to his arse as well, as it happens. He was "read as a woman" from behind by a very drunk gentleman, who approached him with a "hey baby" only to die of shock when my ex turned round to reveal a gruff beardy face.

Wow, India has had a LOT of work done, eh? India looks younger than the photos of Jonathan.

How is "you've recently come to this" anything other than factual? Do we have to conduct a complete stalinist revision of history now and all pretend that India was only ever India? Would make a bit of a nonsense of coming out as trans. You'd have to rename it staying in. "India Willoughby has announced that she is staying in as a woman, which is what she always was".

And as PP pointed out, that would have meant no high profile job for India either, given that India has no television experience. But I suppose we have to believe both things simultaneously, like thinking that Caitlin Jenner is an Olympic gold medal winning decathlete, despite there being no women's decathlon event. We're at war with Eastasia, we've always been at war with Eastasia, etc, etc.

Captain Willoughby - he was the soldier who seduced the youngest DD in Pride and Prejudice, a shallow, charlatan of a man. If I remember correctly.

What is wrong with saying 'because you have come to this fairly recently?. It is true.

That was Wickham, Cocoa. Willoughby is the Sense and sensibility equivalent.

I can do Austen, but I don't have a clue what dead naming is?

Nothing wrong with saying India has come to this fairly recently imo. The subtext might be 'so sit down, shut up, and listen to those of us who've had this bullshit all our lives'

Willoughby is not equivalent to Wickham
Wickham had sex with a woman who had his baby
Willougby said he loved marianne but then married a woman with money

Sorry, couldn't just leave that one!

Nah - that was Wickham...

(sorry, late to the P&P party.. everyone'd already said it)

Willoghby got Eliza pregnant then abandoned her, then was going after Marianne. Wickham didn't get anyone pregnant I don't think? But they both fulfill the handsome cad role.

"dead naming" is saying that India used to be Jonathan.Considered at best a hideous faux-pas, and at worst, literal violence. (unless it is India doing it, in which case it is fine).

I Googled dead naming. Calling someone who has transitioned their former name?

My first thought was that I would find it heartbreaking if one of my children referred to the name I chose them as birth their dead name. How very, very hard.

X post.

I need to go back and re-read my Jane Austen, it seems.

Dead naming is a horrendously insensitive phrase when people have actually in real life lost their children.

Jonathan is dead? No, Jonathan became India. Jonathan did not die. The body lives and breathes. Not dead.

I forgot my Austen!
Sorry

My husband shaves his legs ( cyclist, swimmers do it too) he is definitely still a man. Its winter I often don't shave mine I am definitely a woman.

India appears to be under the impression that being trans gives you a licence to behave like an arsehole. To some extent this has been the case lately, but now awareness has spread of what transgenderism means, the tiptoeing around the topic is ending and people like India whose careers depend on their coming across as decent, likeable people, are going to get a rude awakening.
You simply can't act like an unreconstructed 70s golf club sexist any more and expect to get away with it.

Late to the party, but I've emailed the Beeb.