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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Jenni Murray Woman's hour today (trans)

401 replies

Notwhatiexpected · 02/12/2016 11:12

Hey,
Did anyone hear Jenni Murray on woman's hour today, her guest was India Willoughby. India is trans and was advocating that it was correct for the Dorchester to dictate that their female staff shave their legs.

India was very spiked in her conversation and implied Jenni was transphobic because the panalists didn't agree.

Again, a woman being called transphobic because they didn't agree with a transwoman's opinion.

Thank you Jenni for standing up for women!

OP posts:
Datun · 04/12/2016 09:01

but when it comes to the issues involved in trans activism it is very very relevant

This is precisely why there is a move to stop the question.

TheCountessofFitzdotterel · 04/12/2016 09:04

Oh, that's a perfectly reasonable article. Trans person explains trans stuff - nothing wrong with that.
Maybe the grooming tips one will come later.

Sporadicus · 04/12/2016 09:05

Yy, like with Tara Hudson, the phrase "six years of gender reassignment surgery" (or similar) was repeated again and again, and yet Tara was still, ahem, intact.

MistresssIggi · 04/12/2016 09:11

I hadn't previously thought India had said she had had all the surgeries, but I realise now she just says her surgeries are "finished" which could mean anything.

ageingrunner · 04/12/2016 09:13

It suits the trans agenda to say that women are just perverts who are obsessed with genitals when they want to know whether tw who are, for example, changing in female communal swimming changing rooms have penises or not. Bastards Angry

ageingrunner · 04/12/2016 09:15

Sorry that didn't quite make sense but I hope people can get what I was trying to say.
In most situations I couldn't care less whether tw have dicks or not, but in certain situations I think I have the right to know whether an intact male is present or not.

Datun · 04/12/2016 09:19

Of course age. It's not only relevant, it's almost entirely the point. It's more of this bloody gaslighting. Asking whether someone poses a potential rape threat to you is now considered rude. Rude!!

Diemfdie · 04/12/2016 09:27

A person can be raped by a person with a shampoo bottle in a shower.

BakeOffBiscuits · 04/12/2016 09:29

I was talking about this last night with Dd2 and is at uni where, to me the message seems to be very pro trans (which is great) but they don't seem to think about any negative effects on women.
She was however totally shocked at this interview, especially about how she attacked Jenni, and it really made her think about how trans rights cannot be allowed to over rule existing women's rights/desires/campaigns.

So I'm pretty thankful to India right now because listening to her has made my dd finally "get" that there are some people in the Trans community who really don't care about how "ordinary" women feel about these issues.

ageingrunner · 04/12/2016 09:38

I agree Diem. You're arguing for tw, either pre or post genital surgery, to be completely excluded from women's spaces, I take it? Wink
I'm starting to agree actually. Let's eliminate the grey areas and say males go in the men's. Then we wouldn't need these constant discussions and everyone would know where they stood.

ageingrunner · 04/12/2016 09:39

Thanks Datun glad it was clear. You're right it IS the point isn't it.

ClaudiaApfelstrudel · 04/12/2016 09:42

I haven't heard this interview but it from what I can make out India is unaware of her male privilege and needs to spend time learning about what it is to be a woman rather than engaging in what appear to me to be self congratulatory vanity exercises.

Diemfdie · 04/12/2016 09:46

ageingrunner that is funny! You know I just shot a hole in the leaky logic boat y'all just been sailing merrily along.

I clarified that rape is not equal to penis. And I did it by describing a rape that you could commit on me - should you be so violently inclined. In a swimming pool showers. Regardless of who has got what junk in their trunks.

PoldarksBreeches · 04/12/2016 09:48

Sure diem but who does the raping? Overwhelmingly it's males with penises. So whilst it's theoretically possible that a woman could follow me into a public loo and rape me with a shampoo bottle, the statistical likelihood is small enough for me not to give it a second thought, whereas a man (however he is dressed or identifies) who follows me into a public women's toilet is going to make me nervous, because the statistical probability of him planning to rape me is sufficiently high for it to be a real concern.

PoldarksBreeches · 04/12/2016 09:49

X post
It's not a logical flaw diem because rapists are male. Almost al of them. Whether with a penis or an object, the person raping is male. The vast majority of rapes are carried out by a penis controlled by a male person.

FloraFox · 04/12/2016 09:54

diem you are wrong. Rape can only be committed with a penis.

BeyondTheHarpy · 04/12/2016 09:56

Grin still just one comment, with 600 odd upvotes!!

BeyondTheHarpy · 04/12/2016 09:59

And yes, shampoo bottles would be sexual assault, even if committed by a male

ageingrunner · 04/12/2016 10:00

I understood what you meant Diem, but 90 something percent of sex offenders are male, so I'll happily take my chances in the showers with a woman, not so much with a man. That's the point isn't it? I'm confident that another woman is incredibly unlikely to sexually assault me with a shampoo bottle.

ageingrunner · 04/12/2016 10:02

And if she did, I'd at least have a chance of fighting her off. With a man I'd have much less chance of being able to overpower him.

MissiAmphetamine · 04/12/2016 10:05

diem
The fact is that however a sexual assault or violation is carried out, statistics show that the perpetrator will almost certainly be a male. Whether bepenised, or unbepenised.
The issue isn't the penises, it's the males. So clearly, regardless of whether a male's penis is an innie or an outie, they shouldn't be allowed in female spaces.

Datun · 04/12/2016 10:07

Diemfdie

If you can link to the stats of a woman being raped with a shampoo bottle in the shower, by either a man or a woman, that would be great.

Meanwhile 98% of violent/sexual crime is committed by men with a penis on women.

BeyondTheHarpy · 04/12/2016 10:13

Innie or an outie!!

Diemfdie · 04/12/2016 10:23

98 percent of cats have tails. Not all tails have cats.

The raping is done by rapists, in my experience. Not penises. Not men.

But what that has got to do with a transwoman is neither here nor there, unless you are saying

a) a tw is not a woman because her genitalia may not be perfectly aligned (in which case who made you god???) b) transwomen are known to be statistically highly likely to rape c) India looks like she wants to use a foreign object inserted into Jenni's orifices against her will (for those who are ignorant about what rape is!!!) d) all penises indicate potential to rape, in which case, you know absolutely f all about penises and probably should get out more.

illegitimateMortificadospawn · 04/12/2016 10:23

I can't get the DM comments open. Can anyone paste the comment with the 600 likes. TIA