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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Trans media watch are lobbying mnhq

736 replies

BeyondTheHarpy · 17/11/2016 17:35

I know this has already been mentioned in the PL thread, but I thought it might be an idea to bring it to the attention of mners in a thread of its own.

After the PL debacle, there followed a thread in AIBU about toilet. On which this post appeared...
"I'm with you OP and I'm horrified by the transphobia on Mumsnet. I have done some work with Transmedia Watch who are trying to persuade MNHQ to treat transphobia as they would treat any other hate crime. I don't know what MNHQ have against the trans community or why they don't challenge the widespread belief that trans women are rapists in frocks who want to see fannies."

So, yeah, just letting you know that they are (allegedly) on the case with mnhq.

OP posts:
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WankingMonkey · 30/11/2016 15:39

Not sure if I dare brave AIBU..especially with 'another trans thread'

Theres not much can be done I don't think..sat waiting for call off DHs ex now to see where the meeting has gone.

It all seems so real all of a sudden

Oswin · 30/11/2016 15:49

Your poor DSD, that is awful.

WankingMonkey · 30/11/2016 16:03

She is obviously more worried about the other kids picking on her (and some friends) but to me...it seems the teachers are encouraging this? Assuming we have the whole story of course.

ChocChocPorridge · 30/11/2016 16:34

Do they not have safeguarding requirements here? If he's been punished before for assaulting girls (because that's what groping is), what measures have they put in place to ensure the safety of the girls?

WankingMonkey · 30/11/2016 16:43

Seemingly nothing. I expect DHs ex will bring that up too, though I do know parents have complained before about it (before this 'identification' malarky) and been told that the lad has had detentions for his behavior, and is being closely watched. That seems to be about it..

Datun · 30/11/2016 19:41

Monkey

It sounds like a complete nightmare. Poor you and DSD. I've said it before, but I'm so thankful that both my children are past all this. I'm hoping that by the time they present me with grandchildren (not yet, please) someone, somewhere will have seen some sense.

But I'm not holding my breath.

I echo previous posters advice, to have in writing how they are going to safeguard your DSD.

kua · 30/11/2016 21:00

I had a convo with a friend and her son yesterday. Her son has a ftm in his year group. Apparently she is allowed to define what sex/ gender she "feelz" on a daily basis ie one day female,another a male. One day a dress , next day trousers. Clothing is not an issue as there is not a strict uniform policy .However depending on how what "gender" she feels that day will change for PE etc in her preferred changing room. The boys are in uproar and have complained but what really gets them inflamed is that she chooses which side she plays on depending on fixtures . She is a cox so knocks out the male cox if chooses to join the male team.
a cox BUT will choose to play for the girls if a perceived better competition. The school allows this. Both teams dislike the individual.

WankingMonkey · 30/11/2016 23:10

Had a text earlier on...DHs ex is not happy but didn't go into details. She's coming to discuss it tomorrow with us. Seems serious :/

Will update as much as I can without outing myself/her/DSD

PoochSmooch · 01/12/2016 06:26

That's awful, monkey. I'm so sorry. Best of luck with it - it's just a crazy thing to have to be concerned about.

That article makes me want to cry, prawn. The boundaries of women and girls mean nothing any more. Silly little females, making such a fuss about a bit of penis. Jesus. Welcome to the future.

WankingMonkey · 03/12/2016 12:10

OK sorry for delay in update, had to consider how I put this for privacy reasons as I am sure this is a fairly unique situation right now.

Basically conversation went down the liens of

Teacher: We have an obligation to make all pupils comfortable and to respect the wishes of children who are different who are often bullied more than others
Parent: But what about other children feeling comfortable? I think the fact that this child is known to act inappropriately towards females at school should have been considered
Teacher: The pupil has been feeling uncomfortable in herself for a long time and we have assurance from their parents that the behavior was due to jealousy rather than attraction (?!)
Parent: Thats nice, but cannot be proven. I really think some other arrangement should be made here
Teacher: Like what?
Parent: The pupil could use staff facilities instead of a load of girls having to instead if using the males makes them uncomfortable (new trans case so maybe this should be clear already, but the only change has been the pupil wears skirts sometimes instead of pants...thats literally it)
Teacher: That would not be inclusive. Which goes against our school policy

And so on. Basically head against wall situation. Parent was also accused of 'targeting' child as there have been 'many other' complaints of the same nature so naturally it is assumed that the parents have all ganged up to be horrible to the child instead of people having genuine concerns.

Uncomfortable girls now have permission to use staff room to change. However according to DSD this is about 10 of them :/ And I can't see how this will work if a teacher wants to use the staff room too.

Uncomfortable children can also use the staff loos.

But this child is to do PE with the girls (they are usually separated by sex)

Teachers 'will keep an eye' out for bullying because of this situation but seem to be not taking it very seriously and are more concerned about bullying of the trans child.

So yeah. Fuck this. Her mother is considering other school options. Going to meetup with other dissatisfied parents and see if its possible to move all the children to the same school (so they don't all have to start over...) but not sure how successful this will be. I didn't know you could just change a childs school for 'no reason' which this will probably be put down as.

PoochSmooch · 03/12/2016 12:25

Monkey, what an awful situation Sad

I'm shocked but I'm not surprised that this kind of thing is happening. I hope that enough disgruntled parents can get together to force a change. Those poor girls. Like it's not hard enough being a teenage girl, without having to deal with stuff like this - we shouldn't be asking our children to navigate these kinds of issues. I really hope those involved can find a way forward.

WankingMonkey · 03/12/2016 12:54

DSD is actually with me now. I have asked her how she would feel if it was any other guy who had 'came out' and they were in the same situation. She says she would still not feel comfortable and then asked me why we even have seperate girls/boys facilities if being a girl or a boy doesn't actually matter...which I cannot answer as I don't know. She says she feels more uncomfortable as this guy has felt up her friends before and the general feeling among the schoolkids is that he is doing it 'just to be a perv' but apparently most don't dare speak that view in public and some who have spoke that way among friends join in with the bullying of those who speak out publically...in the hope of avoiding being branded 'homophobic' themselves

(Apparently they don't all understand it enough to even use the right word, some say transphobic, others say homophobic.)

YetAnotherSpartacus · 03/12/2016 12:55

Oh, Monkey! That is appalling :(. I don't know what to say. I'm literally speechless. Those poor girls.

ElsaAintAsColdAsMe · 03/12/2016 13:02

Monkey I'm so sorry about your dsd.

In our case my child is having the same issue. My child, who doesn't want to use the toilets and changing rooms of the sex they present as currently, is being very strongly encouraged by the school to do so.

My child was fine using the accessible toilets and facilities before all this and has been doing so for years.

WankingMonkey · 03/12/2016 13:05

But surely, that would make your child more uncomfortable..make them more prone to bullying AND make others cuncomfortable at the same time? Why on earth would they be pushing for that...to be seen as 'inclusive' even though the current setup works fine (I assume from your post) for everyone?

Its all gone too crazy for me and I honestly don't know how to approach this with DSD. Her mum wants me to take the lead as she is still learning about it all herself (only started last week looking into stuff, as it never affected her before), but I cannot answer any of these questions for her as I don't even understand how I can start to..

WankingMonkey · 03/12/2016 13:06

cuncomfortable Grin

Oh dear, my keyboard doesn't like me today

YetAnotherSpartacus · 03/12/2016 13:12

Elsa, I feel for your DC too. I can also imagine how confronting that must be. It is like a forced 'outing' :(.

ElsaAintAsColdAsMe · 03/12/2016 13:13

to be seen as 'inclusive' even though the current setup works fine

I think that's what it is. They have forms to fill and boxes to tick and being 'inclusive' is one of the things they have to do regardless of what anyone else wants.

I have started sending my child into school on pe days with black jogging bottoms on instead of school trousers and a white tshirt under their shirt and jumper so they can go to the toilets to get ready.

The added complication is that nobody knows about my child here so we have that to contend with too.

Would she be able to change in accessible toilets for the short term until the school figure something out?

YetAnotherSpartacus · 03/12/2016 13:17

I think that's what it is. They have forms to fill and boxes to tick and being 'inclusive' is one of the things they have to do regardless of what anyone else wants.

Oh charming! Using a child in a way that the child does not want so they can show they are inclusive. Talk about using a vulnerable person as a means to an end.

WankingMonkey · 03/12/2016 13:22

Would she be able to change in accessible toilets for the short term until the school figure something out?

They don't have accessible toilets :S

The girls have been told they can use staff facilities but there is no 'for now'..this is apparently permanent

M0stlyHet · 03/12/2016 13:27

Flowers to both Wanking's DSD and Elsa's DC - what a fucked up situation all round Sad

WankingMonkey · 03/12/2016 13:38

I am actually disgusted by your childs situation Elsa.

In DSDs situation it is the child (or their parents) pushing for access to the female areas. I do understand it can be difficult for the school but this 'females opinions don't matter, we have to make one child comfortable and fuck the rest' is clearly the wrong approach.

But in your situation..your child is happy with things the way they are..so it will actually benefit noone at all forcing them to change the way things are. Infact its chance to make your childs situation even more difficult than it already is for them..I cannot see the reasoning behind that at all.

ElsaAintAsColdAsMe · 03/12/2016 13:49

Monkey I'm horrified that this whole situation is supposedly being done on behalf of people like my child.

This is not being done in our name and I'm as unhappy about it as everyone else.

The parents of the child in your dsds school are bloody stupid imo. If their child really does have GID then they need space and time to come to terms with it, counselling and privacy until they figure it out, not to dive right in and trample all over the rights of everyone else while they make their minds up.

Trans rights don't have to eradicate the rights of everyone else.

Datun · 03/12/2016 14:07

monkey

What would happen if ALL the girls used the staff changing area?

Partly for safety and partly to make a point.

WankingMonkey · 03/12/2016 14:12

No idea, but its not going to happen. I mean, the other kids are going to clock whoever is using the staff facilities instead of being 'inclusive' and pick on them even more aren't they, so this is not a solution by any means. DSD is already worried about this given she has already had abuse for daring to speak up in the first place. Apparently most of the 'transphobic' comments have been coming from guys...and when asked how they would feel if it was the other way round the answer tends to be 'it would be great if a girl wanted to get changed with us' or words to that effect

Ugh.

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