Trans media watch are lobbying mnhq

[BeyondTheHarpy]

I know this has already been mentioned in the PL thread, but I thought it might be an idea to bring it to the attention of mners in a thread of its own.

After the PL debacle, there followed a thread in AIBU about toilet. On which this post appeared...
"I'm with you OP and I'm horrified by the transphobia on Mumsnet. I have done some work with Transmedia Watch who are trying to persuade MNHQ to treat transphobia as they would treat any other hate crime. I don't know what MNHQ have against the trans community or why they don't challenge the widespread belief that trans women are rapists in frocks who want to see fannies."

So, yeah, just letting you know that they are (allegedly) on the case with mnhq.

The difference shows up when something like the mixed ward issue comes up, and all the usual terfy suspects are saying, hang on, yes we need single sex wards but some of the situations described were transphobic and unacceptable.

bambam
But it's ok. She is wearing pink socks

As a former competitige cyclist, I am apolplectic over this. I'm more apoplectic over now frozen in PC fear many of my friends are to publicly object

They've really done a number on us over this

The issue I really don't understand is that of the testosterone. They said that the transwoman had followed the IOC guidelines and bought her testosterone down to 9 (whatever he measurement is) but a normal woman's testosterone doesn't get higher than 4. So why are the guidelines recommending an amount that a woman can't achieve?

There's also the matter of completely different bone density, muscle mass, a different shaped pelvis, bigger lung capacity, not carrying a uterus, etc.

And the little matter of effectively being on steroids (natural testosterone) through puberty and up until the point he started to reduce it.

Datun - as I understand it, they took the normal female range then added 5 standard deviations not to the mean of the distribution, but to the highest naturally occurring level they measured in women - hence the 10nmol/litre limit. Doesn't seem very plausible to me. This interview with Joanna Harper explains it. (incidentally, Harper is trans, but is very much of the view that we do need to differentiate by hormone levels rather than self-identification alone, to reach some sort of situation where women, women with intersex conditions and transwomen compete on an equal playing field).

Testosterone levels are part of it, and men being allowed to compete against women with levels that no woman achieves naturally, and at a leve, where you can still father children is absurd. But as datun says, even if the testosterone were brought down to normal female levels you'd still have all sorts of physical advantages from being male.

Which is why trans men aren't beating men in sports.

Which is why trans men aren't beating men in sports.

My entire argument.

I think the testosterone calculation is also high to allow for female intersex athletes?

itsall well it shouldn't be

It's sad if intersex athletes can't compete in the women's category due to high testosterone but people can't compete in international athletics for lots of reasons.

I think the testosterone calculation is also high to allow for female intersex athletes?

Personally I think that should be dealt with on a case-to-case basis as it is a medical condition, not a GID issue.

I would imagine there are relatively small numbers intersex athletes. Caster Semenya obviously springs to mind but I honestly struggle to name any others.

I don't know enough about intersex to determine whether it has the same impact on physical development (bone density, muscle mass etc.) as being born as a man. What I do know is that being born a man gives you those physical advantages.

Yy, Hermione - there's no right to be an Olympian, is there...

For me, I would set a very firm bar for sport - anyone who went through a male puberty may not compete in women's sports. I don't think that would chuck intersex athletes under the bus, would it? I feel enormous sympathy for Caster Semanya and Dutee Chand, who are now caught up in an entirely different fight than they ought to be when their issue is biological (by which I men provably, measurably biological, with no iffy neurobollocks involved)

neurobollocks
Spot on in this context.

Need to read through and have a proper catch up, but re the intersex Olympic rules...

I'd compare it to the fact that my disability is not covered by the paralympics. So I will never be fit enough for the olympics, but cannot take part in the paralympics. Should the paralympics change their rules so I can take part? Even though people with the same issues as me can vary so much that they may well unfairly win many categories?

Sometimes it's just tough shit. My medical issues mean I can't take part in either olympics or paralympics, the same should be true of intersex. Sorry but sometimes life sucks.

I keep reading articles about transgender this year and becoming more and more concerned.

This thread has taught me I'm a second wave feminist and Spartacus!

What I dont understand is this...
I have mental health issues, very clearly and obviously caused by life experiences. I am treated like scum and have been labelled in damning waysm treated like a nuisance and a waste of time (and if I do end up committing suicide it will be this discrimination and judgement that's done it, not the original problem!). Quite obvious, rational things are treated like bonkers delusions on my part. I am treated like an idiot.

Why then, do people with the mental health issues of thinking they are a woman/man despite demonstrably not being so, have their delusions pandered to so extremely?

Sorry posted on the wrong thread

I don't get it either Ontheturningaway . I am concerned that the trans issue may erode services which are already under resourced.

It wasn't just Caster Semenya in the 800m. It's widely believed that second and third place were taken by intersex/transwomen.

I have a huge issue with the unnecessary complication in her life that my DD aged 15 might have before she finishes up in high school, where she may be required to disrobe and shower in a locker room in front of someone with a penis. It is my opinion that it should be up to her to decide when or if she does that, not the decision of the Department of Justice, enforced by her school administration.

^This x 10
hit the nail on the head Math (and other eloquent posters). How can anyone think this would be acceptable? World's gone mad. R.I.P. women's rights

This was one of those...'it wont affect me but I will fight for those it will affect' things. Until last week. DSD came in from school in tears as her and a few friends are being bullied for being 'transphobic'. The whole situation seems insane. Basically a guy in her class now 'identifies' as a girl. This guy has been trouble since he started at that school (she is y7 so they only started there after the 6 weeks holidays). He is known for being pervy and has been in serious trouble a few times for groping the girls in his class. Apparently they were told this guy would now be changing with them and such. So her and a few friends spoke up. Apparently (and I have no proof of this mind, just DSDs word..though I don't see why she would lie) they spoke to the teacher in private too and that afternoon their music practice was cancelled and a 'tolerance' hour scheduled instead?! Which from the sounds of it was a passive aggressive move against the girls who (rightly) were worried about the situation.

We don't know what the fuck to do. DSDs mother has written a note to excuse her from PE today and Friday. But she says she is scared to even go to the loo at school. Her mother has a meeting tonight where she is going to ask if DSD (and other girls who feel uncomfortable) can use the staff facilities but I have an idea where that one will be going...

Honestly, I can see this resulting in her having to change schools :/

This was meant to be elsewhere, but I guess it fits here too :/

That's appalling, Monkey. Another Lila Perry in the making, it seems.

There's an article I've just seen on an American news site which says girls must get used to male genitals in their spaces. It's a civil rights matter, apparently.

I'll try and find it. Think it's in a Charlottesville paper.

Here it is.

And here's the original article (the first one is a commentary and the second.)

I'd post it in AIBU for traffic, Monkey'if I were you. A lot of parents would be interested.

Yes, I still the the vast majority of folk have no idea about all this - what the trans lobby wants and is getting.