Trans media watch are lobbying mnhq

[BeyondTheHarpy]

I know this has already been mentioned in the PL thread, but I thought it might be an idea to bring it to the attention of mners in a thread of its own.

After the PL debacle, there followed a thread in AIBU about toilet. On which this post appeared...
"I'm with you OP and I'm horrified by the transphobia on Mumsnet. I have done some work with Transmedia Watch who are trying to persuade MNHQ to treat transphobia as they would treat any other hate crime. I don't know what MNHQ have against the trans community or why they don't challenge the widespread belief that trans women are rapists in frocks who want to see fannies."

So, yeah, just letting you know that they are (allegedly) on the case with mnhq.

monkey

What would happen if ALL the girls used the staff changing area?

Partly for safety and partly to make a point

monkey

What would happen if ALL the girls used the staff changing area?

Partly for safety and partly to make a point

What would happen if all the girls decided they'd like to identify as male for the foreseeable future: they could wear trousers and demand access to the boys changing rooms.

Get the school to confront the lunacy of the situation

It's really hard for kids to go out on a limb. But God, if I could put my brain into their heads (ironically) for just a few days...

I realise it's probably not a viable solution for you monkey, but it makes my blood boil.

The trouble is that the pressure to be cool and broad minded is so great. Girls are socialized to take care of others and to accept male demands. So 2/3rds of the girls are acting as if it's fine to have a boy, a sexually predatory boy, in the changing rooms. They may each feel very uncomfortable but the pressure is on not to show it.

Ten girls using the teachers toilets will become annoying pretty quickly for the staff. I wonder how long the school will let that happen, before looking for another solution ?

I still cannot fathom how this can be real. I mean I know it is real... but I simply cannot understand how anyone responsible for safeguarding children would think it was OK to put an individual with male genitals in to change with the girls because he 'felt like a girl', even though the girls are distressed, and this is setting aside that the male individual in question has had a dubious history of abusing girls ... and then to talk to the girls about tolerance? What kinds of mixed-messages are we giving our girls? 'Your body is yours and 'no' means 'no', unless someone with a higher authority says you have to say 'yes' because otherwise you will be accused of intolerance and bullied?' Fuuuuuuuuuuck. And I don't think the bullies give a shit about trans rights - they are just using this to tease, bully and cause drama.

I'm quite liberal normally but on this issue I feel quite strongly that it is wrong - as if the school changing rooms weren't terrifying enough anyway¬!

Especially as the boy in question is known by the girls to be pervy and groped them on occasions.

Whether his new identification is genuine or not, these girls know he is a threat.

It is exactly the situation that everyone knew would eventually happen. And it's being sanctioned by the school!

I'd be very interested to hear of any statistics where boys are coming out as trans in an all male school.

This is an interesting (and unscientific) cross section of girls' and boys' reactions to news that their parents had eaten all of their Hallowe'en candy.

I counted four girls who either don't like candy too much or have been deeply socialised to be nice. All the boys showed different levels of shock and anger.

Perhaps the editors chose to show a wider range of reactions from girls - it's possible there were many videos from parents of boys showing meek and muted responses but only those 'typical' boy responses were chosen. I don't know if the four girls I noted were the only ones among the thousands of submissions who displayed unusually stoic responses. As I say, this is unscientific.

I suspect that those pushing for individuals with male anatomy to be admitted into girls' and women's spaces are ready and willing to take advantage of the anticipated niceness we have been trained to present.

I don't know any trans people at my sons' school (which is all boys). I hope if there were it would be handled well. There are not many all boys' schools left in the UK now by the way. Even private schools have tended to put girls into the sixth forms of all boys schools to increase A level grades or keep pupil numbers up except in a few rare cases like Eton, Harrow and of course some other kinds of schools. I think we have local boys and girls separate Catholic schools but then a joint mixed sex Catholic sixth form college around here. I don't have any statistics. I suspect most boys in an all boys school who felt born as a girl would probably get their parents to move them to a mixed school

Ah - it seems there is more being done than I thought - www.telegraph.co.uk/education/2016/07/16/boarding-school-teachers-told-to-address-transgender-pupils-as-z/ Zie, very German (at least German has feminine, masculine and neuter genders as I remember from the very old days of my German A level....)

That telegraph piece states that the effects of puberty blockers is fully reversible. Is this accurate?

TheMortificadosDragon

I don't think there have been many studies done on this, to be honest. As far as I know, though technically hormone blockers are reversible, once on the path, a massively high percentage go on to take cross sex hormones. There is some evidence to suggest that once people have socially transitioned, it is incredibly difficult to 'come out backwards', as it were.

I think this is the reason why there are so few stats on whether blockers are reversible, because few people tend to stop. Whether that's because they are genuinely happy, or whether the encouragement to carry on is too strong, I don't know.

I usually prefer nature to take its course but I haven't ever felt trapped in the wrong body and if I were I might well take them. So taking these drugs when young just feels wrong to me (I have never even taken the contraceptive pill and I am just about never ill unlike a lot of people so it certainly seems to work for me).

I have often been called a man on line just because I share human characteristics with other humans like liking work, being ambitious. If we could just be a lot more gender neutral in life things would be easier for everyone. Instead we more and more seem to push pink on little girls. My daughters always loved the caterpillar cake for birhtdays. We saw it recently suddenly after 20 years instead of being one cake in green packaging there is now a pink one. What was wrong with the green packaged gender neutral one girls in the 80s loved?

I think for me this raises a few questions/views:

The growing use of bulling using the hammer of of Hate Crime. Everyone is accusing everyone else of Hate Crimes. Total focus has been lost on what is an expression of personal thought and I line of thinking and what is a hate crime? It is something that is stifling free speech and has turn into a tool of oppression.

The rise of intolerance, lack of understanding across the political spectrum. Are people making any attempt to put them self in other people's shoes or just filling the party line?

We all want to live in an inclusive society (I asume) but to what extent are we duty bound to make accommodation for the smallest of minority at the cost of happiness of the vast majority?

What was wrong with the green packaged gender neutral one girls in the 80s loved?

I think that is why this is becoming so prevalent. Children are being told to pick a gender whereas before no one gave it a second thought. Now there's a 'right or wrong' decision to be made.

I didn't realise caterpillar cakes had changed packaging..I have had one of those every year for about 20 years off my mum, and now my kids get one too

This growing pink and blue Culture is also a problem. I always used to love catapillier cake. Didn't realise they have changed to gender specific ones. EnormousTiger asks what's wrong with the green package. Well business I guess? If boys and girls want gender specific cakes and you don't offer them but your competitors do then that is a problem to your profits. People seem to be drawing a line in the sand everywhere

I

Was M&S Colin the Catapillier the problem? Was the problem that the catapillier had a male name and thus some felt maybe in a way sexist? Therefore did people feel a need to make something blatently female to represent females? It's sad if that was the reason. Why can't a girl have a Colin cake? Why can't a boy have a Lucy the catapillier cake? Why are building divides? Or can we just have a plain old catapillier cake for all?

When I was younger (and slightly still today) I wanted to be a RL mermaid. Just swimming in the sea for as long as I live and singing to sailors (but mainly the swimming.. and diving underwater and swimming with the fishes).

However I will never BE a mermaid.

Growing my hair long so I look good sitting on a rock, sticking seashells on my tits, sewing my legs together and shoving a fin on my feet won't make me be a mermaid. I may look like one and think I know what a mermaid should be but I won't be a mermaid.

I am a human woman.

I don't give a rats arse most of the time but I am getting pretty fed up when someone born a man who then wishes to be viewed as a female demands to be called a woman, demand all rights as a woman and starts lecturing me on how to be a woman.

Being a woman is nothing to do with wearing make up, doing your hair nice or putting on a nice dress .

You can be feminine as much as you like and I have very effeminate gay friends and they actually agree with me. They don't want to be female but identity more with a feminine point of view but are still proud gay girly men. (My mate Marks words, not mine!)

One of my "girly gays" (again their words, myself and another girl are their honorary "girly gays") has even said he has started to feel pressurised by some friends in the LBDT community for not "admitting" he wants to be a woman because he sometimes goes "full on girly". But he has never wanted to be female. He just loves looking and being feminine but he still calls himself a man.

My mate Mark knows a lesbian couple down the road who could be viewed as sporting the classic "butch" look and we were having a natter about this in Marks garden earlier this year and neither has ever wanted to be male. They just like looking how they do and love each other.

They think it's another "media whim" that the media has picked up on and run with and is the current "hip thing" be be and talk about.

(I was terrified talking about this issue with my friends as I didn't want to offend them but god they made me wet my pants with what they came out with. I think a couple went along the lines of "My dick is my pride and joy! Why would I want to chop him off just because I look amazing in an off the shoulder dress?!" and "If they want to be classed as a woman then they should start sticking a knitting needle up their todger to make themselves bleed for 5 days so every month whilst punching themselves in their stomachs" (I have toned that down a bit to make it more user friendly)

I actually find it really offensive when people minimise what my child has been/is going through by saying "I wanted to be a mermaid/puppy/kitten/whatever"

Unless you needed years of counselling to come to terms with it then it really isn't relevant at all.

Gender dysphoria/gender identity disorder is a mental health condition (if it's still classified as that since the trans activists have been campaigning) being a mermaid isn't.

That's like comparing severe, crippling depression to being a little bit sad for an hour.

The emphasis on the mental health of trans kids tends to overlook the fact that many gay and lesbian kids also suffer psychological damage, as do kids for plenty of other reasons. Yours is by no means the only child who suffers, Elsa.

I have two DS and both have suffered very considerably, one because of bereavement and the other because of his hugely disruptive, life threatening physical condition.

One self harmed, the other spent more than two years in a state of suicidal depression. The world takes very little notice of such suffering. It took years to get suitable treatment. It's not that the mental health needs of trans children are neglected, it's that the mental health needs of all children are neglected. The system is a disgrace.

The trouble is the way I see it is there is a huge diversity in how people identify them self's and feel. I don't believe that Transgender (phyically born a male but identy as female in this case) are some patriarcle plot to invade women's spaces. There is a whole range of people who feel different inside like those who feel genderless. I can not fully identify with them as I have not been in their shoes but I don't doubt the genuineness of most. Although I do know there are cases of confusion and people not finding where they fit in. This is why so much therapy is done prior to gender reassignment. And of course there are some for example who feel female but want to retain a dick. I am not in there shoes so who am I to judge the sincerity of their feelings.

My issue is in practical terms to what extent to we as a society accommodate the the wishes of a very small few at the cost of quality of life of all. It seems unfair to make so many feel uncomfortable to please a few. To use bathrooms/changing rooms as an example I would say that the optimal solution in my book would be to have a separate fully modest aditional changing room/toilets. This would give people including people who are just very shy and private in general a space. At the same time offering the same traditional arrangements for the vast majority. This would also be wanted by people who identify as genderless. Yes it could still be seen as discriminatory against Trans people. But this is not a situation where you will make everyone happy. I think this would be the best comprises to please all in society as much as practicaly possible. That's my best stab of using common sense to work it out.

I am also very shocked a levels of judgement going on about Trans people. Who I we to say what anyone is feeling deep inside. Also the PP has made and intresting point about use of reporting hate speech as a weapon. Badcat666 also pointed out their fear of speaking on this subject of fear of being chastised. I need the name of political correctness we are killing people's willingness to speak. I don't think to say I would be uncomfortable with a man in my toilet even if he identified as woman is hate speech.