Trans media watch are lobbying mnhq

[BeyondTheHarpy]

I know this has already been mentioned in the PL thread, but I thought it might be an idea to bring it to the attention of mners in a thread of its own.

After the PL debacle, there followed a thread in AIBU about toilet. On which this post appeared...
"I'm with you OP and I'm horrified by the transphobia on Mumsnet. I have done some work with Transmedia Watch who are trying to persuade MNHQ to treat transphobia as they would treat any other hate crime. I don't know what MNHQ have against the trans community or why they don't challenge the widespread belief that trans women are rapists in frocks who want to see fannies."

So, yeah, just letting you know that they are (allegedly) on the case with mnhq.

A lot of the complaints they make simply proves they are men, assertive, making a massive fuss, not putting up with stuff. They have a very long way to go if they want to be like women in that sense.

Also lucky them to have time to go to gyms. The rest of us are at work or loading the washing machine for the umpteenth time.

I hope we all remain kind to everyone and that all men and women can seek to achievev that. If you that you tend to do pretty well in life and most mumsnetters are like that too and I hope transpeople can be too. However there does seem to be a very over the top vocal very pushy very men invading female space, men stopping women speaking kind of trans person you get on line, not all but some and we must not let them censor all the women on mumsnet on this topic.

It is really eye opening to read those two articles from the Somerset paper beside each other

Maths, I thought someone who just liked to present as a woman (whilst remaining as a man anatomically) was a transvestite?

IMO, this is getting ridiculous. I feel the need to state: I AM SPARTICUS.

Imgoing2killhim

Transvestite as a description, is now wrong apparently. Because a typical transvestite would be aroused by wearing women's clothes and acting as a woman, as they are turned on by The thought of themselves as a woman. As it's highly dodgy to allow people like that access to vulnerable women and children, it's now included under the umbrella of trans. Same fetish, different name.

prawn

That Datalounge is interesting. Is it mostly gay guys? It's like a more open, upfront earthy version of mumsnet about the transgender issues. And they are just as worried about the transing of children as we are. And they get treated to some wonderful trolls coming in, shrieking 'bigots' and flouncing off.

Afaik it's mostly gay men on Datalounge, Datun. I get the impression that most see child transition as intrinsically homophobic, at least in some cases, and rightly so. I've not seen a poster there mention being a parent, though they mention DNs, but they find it all too easy to imagine gay kids being told that they're trans. Like tomboys who have posted here that in today's climate they would have diagnosed with gender issues, gay men imagine it happening to them, and their blood runs cold.

All the gay men I've known are very focused on dicks (feel the same way myself). They therefore totally get why lesbians are so freaked out by the cotton ceiling. What I find hard to fathom are the liberal feminists of sites like Everyday Feminism who don't get why the cotton ceiling is an outrage. Do they not have any genital preference themselves? Or is it that it's easy to be a trans ally when it's not your body that's up for grabs? Ugly, either way.

Prawn

I don't understand the different stages, or waves, or degrees even if feminism. Are the feminists on EF usually quite young, by any chance?

I'm no expert, Datun. I just read a lot. Too much, probably.

I hang out on the Reddit subgroups, GenderCritical and Gender_Critical (have no idea why there are two with almost the same name.) There is a point to this, I promise.

Most users are American and lots are very young and most are lesbian. From them I hear how what they scathingly call funfems or libfems - their peers - say. These funfems are the audience for Everyday Feminism. They are also called Third Wave feminists and "choice" feminists (because for them any act is feminist because a woman chooses to do it.)

Hoary Whorey old feminists like me are Second Wave feminists. First Wave got us the vote. Second wave got abortion legalized, domestic violence refuges opened, among many others. Third wavers appear to spend their time extolling the virtues of sex work and ordering lesbians to have sex with penis people.

Sorry, that's perhaps a bit mean. I'm usually more measured. I don't think you necessarily have to be a specific age to be part of any wave. Most of the achievements of the Second Wave predate my birth, and IAmAmy comes across as a Second Waver rather than a Third.

I think the website 4thwavenow is named for the new wave they hope to launch.

The key achievement of the Second Wave is class analysis of the two sexes, leading to the identification of gender roles as the main tool of female subjugation in patriarchal societies.

I'm second wave then.

Third wavers seem to resting on the laurels of the second wavers, imo.

What do the fourth wavers want ?

Fourth Wave Feminists want an end to the third wave antifeminism as exemplified by all those articles at Everyday Feminism mansplaining how we are womaning wrong, and a return to the woman's rights centered Feminism of the Second Wave.

Imgoing2 - transvestites are probably still around, but transgender individuals are different.

I have reported HelenJanice's post.

*A transgender man is angry after being banned from the male changing room at his GYM.

Furious Ali Ramezan, 27, was born a woman and is currently undergoing hormonal therapy with a view to a full sex change to a man.*

This turn of phrase really irritates me. Who is born a woman? Last time I checked we were born babies (male/female) and grow up as boys/girls and become men/women.

Why is basic English so so difficult for journalists? You'd think they'd understand language cos it's their job?

Here is one description of feminist 'waves', although I am angry that the author has made a straw-woman of the second wave, diminishing its achievements and homogenising it (when in fact it spanned at least 30 years and was comprised of many different ideologies. It's also bollocks to say that SWF did not recognise difference and that this came with the writing of bell hooks. UK feminism and also early French feminism borrowed heavily from Marxist analyses that put social class up front and centre. See Juliet Mitchell and / or Christine Delphy for example. And race, age and sexuality were certainly topics for debate and discussion too.

Third wave began with DIY feminism and Go Grrll and was still quite radical, although it tended to privilege individual agency and autonomy at the expense of structural constraints. I'm not sure what it has evolved into. I think the question of what the fourth wave is is still open to contention.

www.psa.ac.uk/insight-plus/feminism-fourth-wave

I am so glad I have taken the time to read this thread, thanks OP. I tend to avoid the trans threads because I thought we are all fighting the same battle, and I was/am so confused by the labels being used, but this has opened my eyes. I don't have anything to add to the debate, but at least I now appreciate the argument being made. And it has made me angry.

Another Spartacus is born. Welcome Sickof.

This is why transactivists are so desperate to stop the trans debate on MN: More and more people's eyes are opened to the issues on every trans thread.

A bit off topic, but a lurker here, becoming more and more Spartacus by the day.

In the Fail today:

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3967234/Man-secretly-filmed-women-undressing-UEA-sentenced.html#comments

What would the third-wavers say to the female students who voiced their concerns to the university about the safety of these loos I wonder?

Eh? He was banned from women' toilets or three years? But he's a man. How does that work?

What would the third-wavers say to the female students who voiced their concerns to the university about the safety of these loos I wonder?

From what I have seen, its usually...anyone can get into the loos anyway, and this person is obviously not transgender or anything as a transgender person wouldn't do that.

Interesting though. Did the university have three available toilets in the library - men's, women's and gender neutral? Could that be actually quite a good idea? Then the ladies could be strictly for biological women only.

Or did they just make all the toilets gender neutral!

Interesting though. Did the university have three available toilets in the library - men's, women's and gender neutral? Could that be actually quite a good idea? Then the ladies could be strictly for biological women only.

This would be the most logical solution to it all. But apparently this idea is 'othering' so rejected.

Or did they just make all the toilets gender neutral!
Have you ever seen (and smelt!) a gents?

I read the article to mean that there are three types of toilet: mens, ladies, gender neutral